Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » Flag Officers » Rules and Decisions » “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.

Page: 1 2 3 4 Next

Richard and all,

Good morning.

Finally, some light?
Well, I would like to have some extra knowledge on this “Clause 4” amendment to the SOL Rules.
Can you please disclose it?

Even don’t knowing if ex-SYC members are eligible and/or can contribute with suggestions to the SOL Rules, I have the following proposal:

Inclusion of the ISAF rule #69 in SOL rules with the necessary alterations/adaptations.

ISAF link: sailing.org/...

Thank you and a
Big Hug.

João / psail


--- Last Edited by kroppyer-admin at 2016-12-22 11:19:52 ---
Sail Fair.
For information, Rule 69 deals with "bad behaviour". More: yachtingnz.org.nz/...

--- Last Edited by kroppyer-admin at 2016-12-22 11:22:20 ---
=== Navegare Necesse ===
Good morning all.

Meanwhile ISAF changed the above mentioned link to:

sailing.org/...

João / psail


________
kroppyer: cleaned up the links


--- Last Edited by kroppyer-admin at 2016-12-22 11:21:33 ---
Sail Fair.
Hi ;)

1) Rule 69 of ISAF rules has been specifically mentioned in each Championship NOR since 2014, and it is so in the 2017 ones just published as well.

2) As the SRR revision will become valid from January the 1st , and present edition is still valid , it has been decided to publish the new one only a few days before the end of 2016. ( likely tomorrow ).

Stay tuned !! ;)

SOL Coordinator
The new SRR rules (2017).

It was introduced recently a new paragraph to the SRR aka as the “Clause 4”, here transcribed:

“4. 3rd Party Software

With effect from 1st January 2017, the use of 3rd Party software to send, edit or delete commands to a boat while racing is only permitted when both of the following conditions are satisfied:

a) The commands are issued by the skipper, a team member or a boat-sitter.
b) The commands are sent to the server as soon as possible after being initiated.

Where, following a protest from a competitor in that race or from SRC, a skipper is suspected of breaching this rule the matter shall be investigated by SRC. If a breach is considered to be possible then the race results will be declared “PENDING” and the “PROTEST PROCEDURE” described below will be carried out.

Access to the SOL server may be offered to investigate the allegation; this will be conducted by authorized technicians who will provide an expert written report to both parties and the protest committee prior to any hearing on their findings.”, (end of transcription).

Immediately I had some doubts about the interpretation and full extent of ” b)” item.

“b) The commands are sent to the server as soon as possible after being initiated.”.

Something is escaping me, because boat commands (or, boat steering actions) “after being initiated” and “as soon as possible”, are somehow redundant actions.

You can only initiate a boat command - by means of an immediate action (ok, there’s the ping delay) or by delayed actions (aka “DC’s”) - if you send it (individual or a series of commands) to the SOL server.
The moment you sent the command(s) the ASAP is already happening.

Second.Two questions to SRC.
If I have a 3rd party software that automatically tracks the others boats and, also automatically reacts to their changes, is this forbidden, or not, by this new SRR “Clause 4”?

If not, does SRC intend to ban it, or not?

Thank you.

João / psail
Sail Fair.
gone

--- Last Edited by sol at 2017-12-22 16:05:50 ---
As one of people responsible for clause 4, let me give some explanation:

João: item (b): when the user gives 3rd party software a command to send to the server, the 3rd party software must do so immediately. The software may not decide itself when it sends the command to the server, nor may the user tell the software when it must send the command to the server. (Note: there is a difference between "sent to the server" and "executed": a delayed command can be send to the server immediately after the user enters the command, but only be executed at the time the user intended to.)

What software is allowed, what software is not?
- routers are allowed: they are not software that send commands (should you have a router that does send commands to sol, then it may only send those commands directly after a human (authorised to steer the boat) gives the router instruction to do so.)
- brainaid's DC editor is allowed: there may be some delay between the user giving the software the instruction to send the commands, but this delay is as short as possible. The software does not make a decision when to send the commands, it sends the commands the first possible moment after the user tells it to.
- WxInspector: doesn't send commands, this rule does not apply
- hmm's sollog: doesn't send commands, this rules does not apply
- SPINNACER is partially allowed: all except the autopilot is allowed. You may use SPINNACER, as long as you never activate the autopilot. This is because the autopilot chooses itself (without human intervention) when to send commands to the server
- Some "follow boat X" software: not allowed: the software sends commands without a human telling it to.
- Kipper's bbq rescue tool: partially allowed: boatsitting applies, during one race, only one person may rescue you.
gone

--- Last Edited by sol at 2017-12-22 16:06:39 ---
Clause 4 simply limits the sending of commands by 3rd party programs: in simple words: a human allowed to steer the boat needs to instruct the software to send the command. The software may not decide on its own when to send a command and certainly not what command to send.

This should ban all bots, autopilots, and other software that takes over human decisions, without affecting any other software.

Certainly there may be software that is unwanted be some/most people that is still allowed within the rules, but I am fully convinced that this rules bans all unwanted ways of sending commands (i.e. the ones not directly coming form a human).

There may be other ways 3rd party software can be unwanted (spamming chat or whatever), but these
(1) have been permitted last year(s) as well, so at least things don't get worse
(2) do not affect the courses of boats while racing

I hope you see that this rule is a very good and essential step in regulating 3rd party software.
Viva Huib and all.

Thank you so much for bringing light on this subject.

Your SPINNACER and Andrew’s tools were never a problem, at least in my opinion.
IRL we use autopilots, radar, AIS, depth devices, namely, all with alarm settings.
That’s pacific and above all, for the safety of boats and people.

As previously discussed the real issue is the “robot sailboat” that automatically collects the (should be private) boats live data - or directly from the Server and/or using the hmm’s data center - and, automatically reacts accordingly to the others sailing boats paths.

The first step to stop/avoid this unfair “robot” sailing is simply ruling it out, i.e., ban any type of software that runs with this purpose.
The second measure is to avoid private and precise boat data being public disclosed, as it is obvious that without data input the “robot” software is meaningful.

There’s no other way to say it.
The boat data public availability, noble in principle but, bad in results, brings situations like the one you can easily verify in the two attached PDF files. They speak for themselves.

The data contained in those files were collected for two pairs of opponent boats during the RTW Leg 2, during the Cape Horn approach.

The immediate response and behavior for two of the four boats, at least, can only be explained by two ways:

1 - The use of above mentioned “robot” software, or;
2 - The use of the hmm’s live data center.

That is the reason why I left psail in the dock and also for some skippers opting for “different” paths during races - they know well what is happening.

Happy New Year all.

João / psail
Sail Fair.
Attachments

Page: 1 2 3 4 Next

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m


Current Races:

Sinbad by Balloon 2025 - Baia de l'Oiseau to Carnarvon


How ever shall I return to report with clear report to the Sultan – asked Sinbad. It must be told this island and all its fables shall be expunged from the annals of every thousand and one night. The wind howls here, and sun be none (it’s Winter, Sin, ed.) and all days from the west, but let’s launch anyway and see if we can work our SOL Balloon north as the days pass aiming for Asthralaya, where The Mahabharata tells the ancients once tested mighty weapons, about a quarter and a million qasbah away (2500nm, ed.), perhaps one month.
Race #1885
INFOby brainaid.de
SOL Balloon PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC - SBB
Race starts: Jul 23rd 11:00 Registration will open soon
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Tall Ships Races 2025 - Aberdeen to Kristiansand


Welcome to the third of four virtual Tall Ships Races in European waters which are concurrently being organized in-real-life by Sail Training International . This third race is from Aberdeen in Scotland east across the North Sea to Norway’s Kristiansand; circa 330nm in Sailonline’s magnificent 90m Barque.
NOTE: Starts and Finishes in tall ships racing are always offshore to avoid conflict with shipping and shipping lanes; online and real-life may not match exactly.
Race #1925
INFO by brainaid.de
Barque 90m PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: TS - SYC
Race starts: Jul 22nd 16:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Marstrand to Cowes 2025


We invite you to another race, which will kick off the third quarter of our ARCH series. We'll set off from Marstrand, Sweden, which, along with Skagen, Denmark, marks the line commonly recognised as the border separating the Baltic Sea from the North Sea. The 650nm route will take our Ripitide 50 across the North Sea and the English Channel to Cowes, England. Watch out for the fast ferries crossing the Channel from Calais to Dover 😊.
Race #1935
INFO from brainaid.de
Riptide 50 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
ARQ3 - ARCH - SUPSOL – SYC
Race starts: Jul 21st 17:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Nantucket Sprint 2025


Welcome to Nantucket, from whence Herman Melville’s Cap’n Ahab sailed round The Horn into the northern Pacific Ocean to hunt the gray whale - whose migrations are celebrated elsewhere in SOL’s Q4 schedule - he never to return. And whaling too, as the 19th C progressed, like Ahab disappeared from Nantucket as the harbour silted up and mainland Massachusetts whaling stations benefited from rail connections. But beach life, yachting and nostalgia has rescued the island from oblivion, so to celebrate leisure, SOL gives you the Nantucket Sprint - 25nm in 29er_XX’s from Great Point to Muskeget & Tuckernuck Islands across the sound to a finish just inside the mouth of the harbour. Enjoy!
Race 1936
INFO by brainaid.de
29er_XX PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
SPRQ3 - SPRCH - SUPSOL – SYC
Race starts: Jul 19th 15:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Tall Ships Races 2025 - Dunkirk to Aberdeen


Welcome to the second of four virtual Tall Ships Races in European waters which are concurrently being organized in-real-life Sail Training International . This second race is from Dunkirk in France up the North Sea to Scotland’s Aberdeen; circa 400nm in Sailonline’s magnificent 90m Barque.
NOTE: Starts and Finishes in tall ships racing are always offshore to avoid conflict with shipping and shipping lanes; online and real-life may not match exactly.
Race #1924
INFO by brainaid.de
Barque 90m PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: TS - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Tuesday,
July 22 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Jul 13th 16:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Suursaari TIMED Race 2025

The first TIMED race of the northern hemisphere Summer takes us to the Gulf of Finland on a 165nm zig-zagging course beginning and ending in the seacoast village of Haukilahti and circling the island of Suursaari. It’s only appropriate that the boat for this race is Finland’s own Club Swan 50. This is a TIMEDrace so you may RE-REGISTER HEREto try again after finishing a run. You will have 13 days and 11 hours to test your skill and decision making after the race opens.
Race #1928
INFOby brainaid.de
PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
TRQ3 - TRCH - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
26 July at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Jul 13th 12:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Lake Ontario 300 Challenge 2025

Lake Ontario Offshore Racing (LOOR) welcomes Sailonline sailors (SOLers for short) to a second virtual version of a race in their annual series, the LO300. As the name implies, the LO300 is a 300nm offshore race across the length and breadth of Lake Ontario, from and back to Port Credit YC. Once again, as is our wont on Lake Ontario, a fleet of Beneteau First 36.7s is being made available to virtual racers. There is an overall prize for the SOLer who best bosses Lake Ontario over the two races hosted by Sailonline, this 300 and the Susan Hood raced back in May; so, let the competition be fierce!
Race #1931
INFOby brainaid.de
First 36.7 PARTICULARS
NAM_AWIP WX Updates:
0245 / 0845 / 1445 / 2045
Ranking: LOOR - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Wednesday,
July 23 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Jul 12th 15:10 Registration Open!

▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Young Island to Great Nicobar 2025

The adventure continues as we launch this fifth leg of the RWW series, racing from Young Island to Great Nicobar on the edge of the Bay of Bengal. Get ready for a chilling start as we set sail on the seventh leg of the 2025 Ocean Championship Series! A 5200nm journey of endurance, strategy, and pure sailing excitement. This leg will be pursued aboard the Super Maxi 100v2, pushing sailors to their limits. Do you have what it takes to conquer the Indian Ocean? Join us and put your skills to the ultimate test!
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1929
INFO by brainaid.de
Super Maxi 100 v2 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ3 - RWW - OCCH - SUPSOL - SYC
Race starts: Jul 07th 11:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Kipper1258
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member FreyjaUSA
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member vida
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member BRENTGRAY
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rumskib
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Sax747

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client