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Board » Practice Racing » Mark Boat Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion

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Posted by RainbowChaser Posts 2656 Registered at 2009-06-14 09:44:50	2011-03-21 09:37:05 - Mark Boat Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	First off, thank you to all who brought the Mark Rounding debate into the Forum here. The Forum is definitely the best place for such discussions as we can all plan what we say! Second.. I would like to propose the following Rounding rules for the purposes of SOL Practice Racing: 1. Rounding a Mark is achieved when the track of a boat clearly passes the correct side of the central circle/mast of a Mark boat (when used) or clearly rounds an island. 2. Failure to round a Mark gives the skipper two choices (a) carry on racing but fall out of the rankings (b) undertake a penalty turn, of at least two course changes that are visible in the track, and remain included in rankings. --- Last Edited by RainbowChaser at 2011-03-28 16:38:13 ---
Posted by WhyNot Posts 51 Registered at 2011-02-03 18:39:54	2011-03-21 12:00:30 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	I think that sounds fine, but should we specify a duration of "one fleet update" between the two course changes?
Posted by Tazumaki Posts 46 Registered at 2009-08-10 15:21:39	2011-03-21 18:18:03 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	Tom: your idea is not very practical as there is no way to measure how long one is on a specific course and you have one fleet update every minute, but three or four personal updates. So if you know when the fleetupdate is to come, you change your course on the last personal update before that and may change back on your next update while others have to go three updates in the wrong direction. After a Track update every change is visible, even if it last for only one personal update and it is not possible to do more than one change in a personal update. I would propose to do a 360° by doing three course changes of about 120° in the same direction in a row as this is clearly visible in ones track after an update. --- Last Edited by Tazumaki at 2011-03-21 18:19:27 --- --- Last Edited by Tazumaki at 2011-03-21 18:20:33 ---
Posted by WhyNot Posts 51 Registered at 2011-02-03 18:39:54	2011-03-21 18:26:36 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	Taz, I think it is easy to see a fleetupdate. Just dont't watch your own boat. I see the following scenario: You are going to make a penalty turn. You watch an other vessel. She or he jumps - you make your first turn. He or she jumps again - you make your second turn etc. Or am I wrong? Edit: I did some experimenting to day. I made several course changes in rapid succession - as fast as the system would allow. Set new course, click button - set new course ( while button text is grey) click when text turns black - and so on. It doesnot take very long to do. It is my feeling that the greatest penalty is the performance loss. I think we need to formalize a duration. Tom --- Last Edited by Tom Nordahl at 2011-03-21 18:35:06 --- --- Last Edited by Tom Nordahl at 2011-03-21 18:36:24 --- --- Last Edited by Tom Nordahl at 2011-03-21 18:39:05 ---
Posted by Tazumaki Posts 46 Registered at 2009-08-10 15:21:39	2011-03-21 20:03:12 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	WhyNot said @ 2011-03-21 18:26:36: Taz, I think it is easy to see a fleetupdate. Just dont't watch your own boat. I see the following scenario: You are going to make a penalty turn. You watch an other vessel. She or he jumps - you make your first turn. He or she jumps again - you make your second turn etc. Or am I wrong? Edit: I did some experimenting to day. I made several course changes in rapid succession - as fast as the system would allow. Set new course, click button - set new course ( while button text is grey) click when text turns black - and so on. It doesnot take very long to do. It is my feeling that the greatest penalty is the performance loss. I think we need to formalize a duration. I dont think your wrong at all, but i don't know exactly if your hops (or your Timewindow for comands during a hop, to be precise) is really synchronised with the Fleet updates. But more important: your proposal may be cheated as it is not to tell how long one actually sailed his altered course. if you turn just before the fleetupdate and imediatly after, it will look allmost the same to others as if you sailed your course for a whole minute. I also have done these tests... each single comand is executed and you move one personal Hop in that direction. You can sea each comand after the trackupdate if you zoom in. So my proposal is to do allmost the same as what you would do at the mark... go back to your track, continue your old course untill you pass the mark and go to your new course. I only propose to do 120° three times as it is easier to see on the track. The duration is allready formalized, as the personal hops are of equal length for everyone.
Posted by newsartist Posts 41 Registered at 2009-08-20 03:01:55	2011-03-21 20:27:31 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	I think the whole subject is more intensity than we need to get involved with, After all, this is a fun race, not the America's Cup, (with lawyers.) Rounding the Central Dot of a Mark, is fine. ...or rounding a designated island without grounding. If an SLI is jumped, assume a high tide!
Posted by newsartist Posts 41 Registered at 2009-08-20 03:01:55	2011-03-21 20:35:00 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	If a Penalty is determined, I like the idea of the boat turning to the nearest Cardinal Direction to its present heading, then immediately on seeing the change, turning to the reciprocal of that, ...and then resuming racing. That guarantees the max perf hit. (...to be taken at any time before the Finish. Boats burdened by land may not be able to take it immediately.) Anything else but a penalty at the sailor's choice of time, destroys a boat that is on DC. --- Last Edited by newsartist at 2011-03-21 20:36:47 ---
Posted by K3 (Bernd) Posts 130 Registered at 2008-08-25 12:34:07	2011-03-21 21:36:52 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	10% of our fleet starts in the wrong direction (and I don't think of ±20°) 10% of our fleet don't knows the way to the first mark when it's not the finish line 10% of our boats are already abandoned when the 1st finishes And now you want us to sail 120° triangles as reparation? That's a big project! ciao Bernd
Posted by RainbowChaser Posts 2656 Registered at 2009-06-14 09:44:50	2011-03-21 22:45:38 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	K3- this is only for the short/informal practice races!! Not for the general SOL fleet at all
Posted by WhyNot Posts 51 Registered at 2011-02-03 18:39:54	2011-03-21 22:59:14 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	Tazumaki said @ 2011-03-21 20:03:12: But more important: your proposal may be cheated as it is not to tell how long one actually sailed his altered course. if you turn just before the fleetupdate and imediatly after, it will look allmost the same to others as if you sailed your course for a whole minute. And therefore I think your 3x120 is a good idea. I also have done these tests... each single comand is executed and you move one personal Hop in that direction. You can sea each comand after the trackupdate if you zoom in. As to personal or fleet hop, I think the personal hop is to short a time. Tom

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