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Board » General Discussion » race closure methodology proposal

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Posted by
WIN


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2009-07-09 23:32:07
2010-06-21 20:27:23 - race closure methodology proposal
Ciao all
It has been discussed in chat as to how races should be closed and when , with special regard to timed ones .....I offered to make a proposal for all to evaluate and discuss ....It is attached here ....good reading and lots of comments please ...;)
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Posted by
RainbowChaser


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2009-06-14 09:44:50
2010-06-21 20:50:10 - Re: race closure methodology proposal
Excellent WIN - thank you very much for this. Very clear, very coherent - key will be to get agreement on the % / formula to determine an appropriate Race Closure time.

Iwill re-read in the morning and, hopefully, many other SOLers, some of whom are IRL sailors, will do the same and give us feedback!!

Clarity on how different races close will manage expectations and hopefully avoid any sense of unfairness that might otherwise prevail.
Posted by
captjack1942


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2008-01-18 03:24:03
2010-06-21 21:41:38 - Re: race closure methodology proposal
I agree that there should be a set rule for closure of registering and running races.

Not sure that 2 hours for every 100 mi is good. I can see instances where a 500 mi race (say in Mini 6.5s) might take as much as three~four days (see Dubai / Muskat Races #1 and #2). Conceivably one could start as much as a day late with the right wind conditions and do well.
On the other hand, even though it was a fun little race, there was no reason for the Twister to remain open for 2 days.

Maybe just say a day for races up to a 1000 mi, then 2~3 hours per 100mi for longer races.

For timed races I think the trick is to keep them open long enough for everyone to get a chance at a good weather window.
In the current race around Sicily the race was only open for a couple of days, then reopened. Perhaps there should have been 2 seperate races #1 and #2. We have done this before. Timed races used to be filler races between races. A couple of years ago we only had a 2~3 of races a month (or one long race). We did St Malo around St Martins (I think) 3 times. One I believe was open for near 2 weeks.
I'm not sure if we should do long timed races like the TransAt last winter, to me the Malta around Sicily to Malta is at the upper limit in length for a timed race. 12 up to 24 hours is best I think.

As to how long timed races should remain open, I think 9~10 days. In my experience weather cycles seem to run in 9~10 day cycles. In winter, maybe 4~5 day cycles. Otherwise, open for 3~4 days, then later open same course as other race for 3~4 days.

As for when to close the line. I see no reason for any race to remain open for 3-4 weeks after the first boats have finished. Maybe for long races 24~36 hours after 1/4 ~ 1/3 of the fleet has finished. And for shorter races surely no longer than 24 hours.

--- Last Edited by captjack1942 at 2010-06-21 21:49:08 ---

--- Last Edited by RainbowChaser at 2010-06-22 08:59:15 ---
Posted by
zero


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2010-02-07 16:56:30
2010-06-22 00:58:18 - Re: race closure methodology proposal
My 2 cents:

Race closure ( client unaccessible ):
Winston, I agree with your proposal.

Race registration:
I see no reason for a race be open for more than 2 hours after the start. Even the long races. (I know that I may get eggs thrown on my face by saying that)

But my reasoning are two fold;
1- we have races all the time here, if you miss one just wait a few days for the next one.
2- SOL has a fantastic way to set DC's and now with the Brainaid's tool box open to everyone is even easier to set delay commands.

Another thing more or less related to this;
In my opinion we don't need to be inventing new races all the time. There are several great races that can and should be repeated often. So if someone missed the start window in one of their favorite races he/she knows that in a few months that particular race will be on schedule again.

Sail on ...

Antonio (zero)

--- Last Edited by zero at 2010-06-22 01:00:04 ---

--- Last Edited by zero at 2010-06-22 01:05:49 ---
Posted by
Schakel


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2008-12-19 09:19:00
2010-06-22 07:59:35 - Re: race closure methodology proposal
Quite often the number of registrations nearly doubles in the hours or even days following the actual start of a race. So apparently, there is a demand for post-start race participation which I think is justification enough to keep registration open for much longer than proposed. Server capacity is not an issue until around 1750 to 2000 boats which with the current numbers means as many as three races could be run simultaneously.

Also, I think races are attractive to newcomers. Contrary to races open for practice, active races are often chatty so any newbie can jump right in and get a proper feel of the game as well as the atmosphere. So with the present number of races being held, at least one of the active races should be open for registration pretty much all of the time, except timed races. Closing races sooner makes SOL an exclusive yacht club which at this time is ill-advised.


Philip
Posted by
Tazumaki


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2009-08-10 15:21:39
2010-06-22 14:39:30 - Re: race closure methodology proposal
I widely agree with Schakel.

Online-Racingservers with no opportunity to Race are quite useless!
Our Community does not only consist of frequent Users like the Ones diskussing this Topic. I'm quite sure, that there is a large number of occasional Racers, which don't think about SOL in RL-busy times, but come back in RL-quiet times, with the intention to do some SOLing just for fun. Therefor without knowing what races are scheduled and when they had to be here for registration.
Maybe for these Users competing isn't the main Issue, but to see the boat moving. For competition they may be fine with checking their advancement against the boats in the neighborhood.
And of course, a Newcomer stumbling upon this Online-Racing-Site will leave immediatly if there actual isn't any Chance for Online-Racing.

So i think there should allways be at least one Course open for Registration (and SOLing) and it should be a frequently used course, so Newcomers get the Chance to experience this special community by chating.

Regarding the closing time Issue i would suggest, to use the finishing time of the Winner plus about one or two hours each 100 miles length. That would give late Starters(within reasonable bounds) the opportunity to compete by at least roughly comparing their finishing times with the winner's.

And at least a note to the third of Winstons Rules:
An Exception should be... well... exceptional! :-)
That means, there should be at least a reasonable Argument more than pleasing the Majority for making an exception. Otherwise we will end up in making a poll for every case, just to find out if a Majority may be pleased by this Exception. ;-)
Posted by
zero


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2010-02-07 16:56:30
2010-06-22 18:32:29 - Re: race closure methodology proposal
Just to clarify my last post,

My post was written based on the assumption that the server has a limit of boats it can handle before gets painfully slow.

My point of closing the race soon would be void if there was no limit on the server.
I understand that my idea is bias to the hard core sailors among us.

All I want is to give one more point of view to help the SOL gods make their decision.


Let me ask a technical question here:

What if we limit the participation to a certain number of boats and the race is closed only and when that number is reached? (A number that is large enough for newcomers and small enough not to get the server to respond with annoying delay)

Cheers,
Antonio (zero)



Posted by
WIN


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2010-06-23 19:56:29 - Re: race closure methodology proposal
Hi all ;)

with a couple of exceptions I feel as the spirit that drove me to start this thread has not been understood , although quite spelt out. I offer the following facts :

1- available races have triplicated or more in recent months .
2- Each race is already open and closed, but we do not know when . Suggesting a rule would increase awareness of what is/will be available to solers.
3- Chatters would still have anything from 3 to 7+ days to register themselves in any race between opening and closure , besides the ability to register as sol from before opening to closing( enough time ? )
4- the american server has already gone belly up ( remember ? ) and we are ONLY living on the swedish former backup.
5- Sol is in spirit property of every soler...surely not an exclusive yacht club , nor a place where some should be seen as professionals of racing trying to rule out the rest ....this is totally untrue .

Contributing to sol SURVIVAL ,growth progress and improvment is the only objective everyone of us surely has .

ciao all .....as Antonio says :

my three cents ..( the third is the reward SYC professionals get for high ranking ! ) ....;);););)

WIN
Posted by
ivar-sails-no-more


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2010-02-04 22:24:21
2010-06-23 20:10:09 - Re: race closure methodology proposal
Test, so that i don't lose all tekst again, allthough when posted, this tekst makes ab-so-lute-ly no sense
Posted by
ivar-sails-no-more


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2010-06-23 20:20:35 - Re: race closure methodology proposal
Now it works!
What does SOL want to be? is the question i am asking myself. I hope it wants to stay close to what it makes attractive. Friendly, helpfull, feeling of being part of a small somewhat crazy club anf loads of FUN!
Next to that it is a strategic sailinggame. I like the idea that you have to make a little effort to get to understand how SOL works. It gives SOL its lovely users so to say.
On the other hand, a possibility should be there to instantly race when someone new has finally found the site.

Conclusion (imho) Make a race, a short one with open registration, run once a day. Could be a fixed course (olympic, up n down, etc) Mark this race with a "get to know SOL" (or somethng like that) button and run it ouside the ranking. Sort of a playground that would be.

Run the other races according to winston's proposals

Greetings Perenkist!

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