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Board » General Discussion » Mark Rounding San Juan

Posted by victory Posts 36 Registered at 2009-04-18 11:37:25	2010-03-17 07:28:57 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
	AS far as I am aware the rules IRL also allow you to cross the finish line from any direction Except in match racing! Rule 28.1...A boat shall start,leave each mark on the required side in the correct order and finish!! Pete
Posted by Incognito Posts 183 Registered at 2008-12-06 13:43:52	2010-03-21 18:10:51 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
	First, congratulations to Jakob and Kalle for aligning SOL's mark rounding rules with real life ones. I did not hesitate to use the old rules as they were. However, I did not like them because they created a lot of confusion. The race committee has also discussed the existing possibility of crossing the finish line in the wrong direction. In real races, crossing the line in the wrong direction is not accepted. However, the race committee suggests to leave things as they are. 1. The race design should normally ensure that passing the line in the wrong direction does not provide an advantage. 2. As a result, those who pass the finish line in the wrong direction usually do so because they have missed it in the first place. They have thus already been penalized. The race committee has decided to acknowledge that there are differences between real and virtual racing. In real racing, it does not happen frequently that the finish line is crossed while no watch is being held, unlike in virtual racing. For the race committee, Incognito
Posted by A2 Posts 347 Registered at 2009-10-26 00:39:42	2010-03-21 18:41:46 - Re: Finish Line
	I was not in the San Juan race to witness what transpired there but if an interim rounding could raise such a ruckus, then a finish line controversy, where a final placement would clearly be at stake has the potential to be more explosive. I feel the standard that should be adopted is the one that reflects the way this matter is handled in high profile regattas such as the America's & Louis Vuitton Cups, and the like. I do not find the example where a boat just misses the end of the line and must return to it, to be persuasive in concluding that "no advantage" exists under the current state of the rule. Rather, as Sailors, please tell me, Do Lay lines matter ? If a boat has overstood the lay line or a wind shift has caused a boat to find itself beyond said line, should not that boat have to lose ground to return to the center of the course at some point? This situation can occur at a distance from the eventual finish line. If a skipper has the option of waiting until after passing the finish line extended to make this correction, the wind condition on the line may be at odds with what may have existed earlier up the course This then would present two unequal choices and offer in some cases an actual unfair edge. This is the appropriate test. Waiting for this to become an Issue only invites enmity between SOLers who had previously been friendly with each other. Avoiding hard feelings is my aim in this position --- Last Edited by Aethereal at 2010-03-21 22:03:01 --- None so blind
Posted by Hirilondë Posts 48 Registered at 2010-02-22 12:50:31	2010-03-21 18:44:36 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
	I don't see or have any issues with the recommendations of the race committee. I have tried to envision a situation where under certain wind conditions crossing backwards would be a quicker means to finish than the intended route of the course. So far the only one I can come up with would be a finish line on the back side of an island similar to the way point on the backside of the island in the San Juan race. But assuming that the course is set up in such a manner to remove that scenario I don't see it being an issue. An additional way-point could always be added if necessary to make the back door finish totally undesirable except for the missed finish scenario Incognito mentions in his post. Thanks for sharing the thoughts and recommendation of the Race Committee. edit: Hmmm, I must have been writing at the same time as Aethereal. I don't know the odds of such a thing as he describes happening, but it is certainly worthy of consideration. Is there any reason for a backwards finish great enough to risk such a thing? It is really a shame that someone doing well might be distracted by an IRL situation and miss the finish. But we all face that possibility. --- Last Edited by Hirilondë at 2010-03-21 18:54:07 ---
Posted by StuArt Posts 118 Registered at 2008-11-15 22:03:54	2010-03-22 01:03:59 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
	USA Aether A2 said @ 2010-03-21 18:41:46: II feel the standard that should be adopted is the one that reflects the way this matter is handled in high profile regattas such as the America's & Louis Vuitton Cups, and the like. --- Last Edited by Aethereal at 2010-03-21 22:03:01 --- America's Cup and Louis Vitton Cup Finals are Match Race events - Rule C 2.1. is active: just one direction. SOL is fleet racing. The committee can decide the cases. regards Berth
Posted by A2 Posts 347 Registered at 2009-10-26 00:39:42	2010-03-22 02:27:14 - Re: Finish Line
	StuArt - Thank you I agree that undeniably this is indeed a fleet race circumstance, My limited acquaintance with Sailing experience and terminology is painfully obvious. Perhaps the Volvo Ocean Race would be a better high profile exemplar. --- Last Edited by Aethereal at 2010-03-22 15:43:34 --- None so blind
Posted by Capt.D.P. Posts 66 Registered at 2009-10-27 01:51:32	2010-03-22 10:31:16 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
	hey VICTORY I would not say that IRL you could cross the finish line from opposite direction and complete the race except if it is not strictly in the instruction to cross from other side. In fact you could cross it from opposite direction but than recross it back in right direction.The instruction gives you the arrival between two points and by crossing from behind you have not passed between those points in right direction so you must do it by recrossing the line otherwise you have not arrived
Posted by Capt.D.P. Posts 66 Registered at 2009-10-27 01:51:32	2010-03-22 10:45:39 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
	hey INCO don't you think that a genoa you have on that boat of yours is to big for that wind. It is quite deforming yr main.If that is the only genoa you have than you should have opened it more or if you wanted better angle tight the forsail at max. and tight at max. for part of genoa in order to have genoa as flat as possible aft
Posted by StuArt Posts 118 Registered at 2008-11-15 22:03:54	2010-03-22 13:16:48 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
	totally OT: @Aether: it isn't in your responsibility that the ol' guys from the famous ISAF November meeting are not able to make rules clear, understandable and without playgrounds for cheater and solicitors. Probably its in the nature of the game, I don't know. When I see the changes they made for 2009 - 2011 I am again puzzled: loads of changings about wording - very few about simplify the cases. We are talking about ISAF rules (formerly aka IYRU) that rule all sorts of sailing worldwide: dinghysailing as well as windsurfing, offhore races and even RC boat racing (sorry about that Rainbow Chaser ) America's Cup, Louis Vitton or Volvo Ocean have created their own stuff next to the ISAF rules. And many other organisations as well. So we have to face thousands of pages ruling sailing IRL. We just have to decide, what we are picking out to keep the game as IRL as possible IMHO regards Stu
Posted by A2 Posts 347 Registered at 2009-10-26 00:39:42	2010-03-22 16:20:52 - Re: Finish Line
	Upon further reflection: With all the races so far conducted here at SOL, if there was the possibility for any complaint to arise over the finish line configuration as it exists, it certainly would have happened by now. My rudimentary understanding of strategy & tactics as it applies to these events must be lacking sufficient insight to carry this matter any further, Whether or not my hypothetical stratagem has any merit. None so blind

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