Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » General Discussion » Jubilant Fastnet Campaign Qualifying Races - POLAR needed

Page: Previous 1 2

Posted by
NZL_Scotsman


Users avatar

Posts
251
Registered at
2008-10-04 07:59:40
2013-04-24 07:07:25 - Re: Jubilant Fastnet Campaign Qualifying Races - POLAR needed
I would think you are faster under small spinnaker or gulling than with a genny in heavy conditions. Therefore the first one.


--- Last Edited by NZL Scotsman at 2013-04-24 07:08:20 ---
Posted by
javakeda


Users avatar

Posts
73
Registered at
2013-03-01 03:18:22
2013-04-25 15:45:57 - Re: Jubilant Fastnet Campaign Qualifying Races - POLAR needed
Initial thoughts:
[Forgive me it I state the obvious.]

1) Having different polars for different sail configurations [and/or weather conditions] is fairly common for IRL routing. So the choice between 'a" and 'b' is not absolute.

2) Shape is more important than scale. It is a lot easier to scale a shape than vice versa.

3) In SOL we get used to having detailed polar values for every TWA degree and TWS nm.
IRL, it may be more constructive to think in terms of Points of Sail.

I would test values for being on a:
-- beat
-- close reach
-- beam reach [TWA = 90, NOT AWA = 90]
-- broad reach
-- run [tacking downwind]
-- DDW [wing and wing]
with particular attention to finding "maxVMG" points for the
-- upwind sweet-spot
-- downwind sweet-spot.
[Helmsman needs to make the call here. Mark the time when the helmsman is happy. Use post-sail log analysis to determine values. Feedback corrections can apply to the polar, the helmsman, or both ... but it is normally easier to correct the polar, and make the helmsman aware of the change.]

4) For empirical polars, it is a whole lot easier to think in terms of a sparse polar that is wind-line based ... as opposed to one that has values for almost any wind angle and wind speed. I would try for a sparse polar first [like the one for the J30 attached] and let software fill in the details later.
Certainly a sparse polar is easier to revise.

Again, these are just initial thoughts based on my experience in validating the polar for a Beneteau First 47.7 [cruising rig].



--- Last Edited by javakeda at 2013-04-25 15:51:08 ---

--- Last Edited by javakeda at 2013-04-26 15:27:51 ---

--- Last Edited by javakeda at 2013-04-26 15:28:35 ---
Attachments
Posted by
ALL_4_Aaron


Users avatar

Posts
5
Registered at
2012-09-22 11:10:08
2013-04-26 15:04:06 - Re: Jubilant Fastnet Campaign Qualifying Races - POLAR needed
quote: Feedback corrections can apply to the polar, the helmsman, or both ... but it is normally easier to correct the polar, and make the helmsman aware of the change.]

LOL
Posted by
ybw_mjm


Users avatar

Posts
20
Registered at
2009-11-12 21:48:35
2013-04-26 17:15:10 - Re: Jubilant Fastnet Campaign Qualifying Races - POLAR needed
After having sailed the Moody s38 for a number of years, the _b polar is looking like a good match in terms of shape and speed.
My only comment is that since we are a little heavier we might need a little more wind to get us going.
Virtual sailors might do better than us in real life if the winds are light.
We will record our speed/wind data in real life and see then what improvements can be made.
Posted by
RainbowChaser


Users avatar

Posts
2656
Registered at
2009-06-14 09:44:50
2013-04-26 17:49:39 - Re: Jubilant Fastnet Campaign Qualifying Races - POLAR needed
mjm - OKies Jubilant_b it shall be.

In reality you will have the benefit of tide? or current? so maybe the fact that SOLers will grab the wind swifter will be offset a little?

:-)
Posted by
ybw_mjm


Users avatar

Posts
20
Registered at
2009-11-12 21:48:35
2013-04-27 00:36:03 - Re: Jubilant Fastnet Campaign Qualifying Races - POLAR needed
Tide.. Good thinking..
Although I think in the first race (4th May) we will be against a weak tide IRL for the first hour or so...then crossing the English Channel, the tide will be across our course.. so it should all even out in the end.
Posted by
ybw_mjm


Users avatar

Posts
20
Registered at
2009-11-12 21:48:35
2013-04-27 00:37:41 - Re: Jubilant Fastnet Campaign Qualifying Races - POLAR needed
With the race to The Rock - IRL the tide will be with us for six hours and then against us for six hours. It will be like this all along the south coast so should even out with the virtual yachts.
Posted by
76Trombones


Users avatar

Posts
362
Registered at
2009-08-03 18:04:56
2013-04-27 00:43:46 - Re: Jubilant Fastnet Campaign Qualifying Races - POLAR needed
SOL takes a pretty big hit vs irl on nearshore winds, so it's all probably a bit moot.

Looking forward to seeing you guys out on the water!
Posted by
ybw_mjm


Users avatar

Posts
20
Registered at
2009-11-12 21:48:35
2013-04-27 01:51:01 - Re: Jubilant Fastnet Campaign Qualifying Races - POLAR needed
So are we!

It's going to be interesting...

Page: Previous 1 2

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Raja Muda Selangor 2025 - Penang to Langkawi

Welcome to the third online race of the Raja Muda Selangor International offshore series – a 70nm final trip further north again up the Malacca Strait from Penang to the exotic island of Langkawi, and again in J-109s.
Race #1963
INFO by brainaid.de
J-109 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: RMS - SYC
Race starts: Nov 20th 04:00 Registration Open!

▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Raja Muda Selangor 2025 - Pangkor to Penang

Welcome back on board your J-109 for our second online offshore race in cooperation with the Raja Muda Selangor International organisation – an 80nm trip from Pangkor north up the Malacca Strait to Penang.
Race #1962
INFO by brainaid.de
J-109 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: RMS - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Friday,
November 21 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Nov 17th 04:00 Registration Open!

▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Raja Muda Selangor 2025 - Port Klang to Pangkor

Sailonline is delighted to be able to offer online sailors an opportunity to once again compete in all three of the offshore races of the Raja Muda Selangor International race week, organised by the Royal Selangor Yacht Club in association with the RORC, and commencing with a 75nm trip from Port Klang to Pangkor. This year we will be racing this race, and the other two, which together will count towards our Sailonline Raja Muda Series (RMS), in J-109s.
Race #1961
INFO by brainaid.de
J-109 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: RMS - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Thursday,
November 20 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Nov 15th 04:00 Registration Closed

▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Round Hong Kong TIMED Race 2025

This month’s TIMED race takes us to the hectic, bustling sea lanes of the South China Sea for a 118 nm race beginning and ending in Hong Kong rounding several of the 260 nearby islands along the way. The boat for this race is the South African built Cape 31. This is a TIMEDrace so you may RE-REGISTER HEREto try again after finishing a run. You will have 13 days and 11 hours to test your skill and decision making after the race opens.
Race #1964
INFOby brainaid.de
Cape 31 Particulars
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
TRQ4 - TRCH - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
22 November at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Nov 09th 12:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Fernando de Noronha to Faroe 2025

The RWW Series concludes with a spectacular journey from Fernando de Noronha to the Faroe Islands, a legendary destination in the wild North Atlantic. Panning 4,100 nautical miles, this leg will be a true test of endurance, strategy, and sheer determination. Also the penultimate leg of the 2025 Ocean Championship, it’s your chance to prove your mettle against the sea, the wind, and yourself. We’ll be racing aboard the Ragamuffin 100, a vessel built for speed and challenge — demanding planning, precision and grit from every sailor on deck. Do you have what it takes to master the Northern Atlantic?.
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1960
INFO by brainaid.de
Ragamuffin 100 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: RWW - OCQ4 - OCCH - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Monday,
November 24 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Nov 03rd 11:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Sinbad by Balloon 2025 - Carnarvon to Dondra


From here, our home in Bharatavarṣa is now north west of us – said Sinbad to his fellow balloonists. Perhaps we can ride the wind first further north, and then catch the winds that every year bring the rain, perhaps not. It’s 2600nm and we could be aloft awhile, so, Master el-Quarters, victuals only, no sandbags, provisioning the giant hamper. It will be not a picnic!
Race #1886
INFOby brainaid.de
SOL Balloon PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC - SBB
Race starts: Oct 15th 11:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member vida
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CollegeFund
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member BRENTGRAY
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Panpyc
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Sax747

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client