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Board » General Discussion » Mark rounding

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Posted by
NZL_PaulR


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2008-07-22 12:21:30
2011-07-18 21:44:52 - Re: Mark rounding
7mr: Sorry about that false praising.
It was Andrew Lees who raised the tidal comments in another thread.

I think one could review previous postings whilst creating a new post, so I could not check as I was writing. Being male, multi-tasking is knot possible.
(English needs more "k"s as they are under used LOL)
Cheers
If it breaks, it's not strong enough!
Posted by
AGage


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2008-12-27 10:31:57
2011-07-23 11:33:40 - Re: Mark rounding
Yes, you can Paul... 'Duplicate Tab' - I often have the thread open and a reply page to type into..

There has been sever code written to enforce this, as for awhile it was enforced. How or why it is no longer in there is a mystery, but Im sure will be fixed soon.

Not to mention this came up earlier in the Tampa race, pretty much with same feelings expressed.

Of course using a carbon tiller is not unsportsmanlike if within class rules, but show me please where it explicitly states you are able to unwind a mark rounding ??

I think the fact that following boats, except (IIRC) #24 or something, still went the correct way - despite seeing PetrM retain his #1 after unwinding, says more than anything written in this or other similar threads...
I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
Posted by
captjack1942


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2008-01-18 03:24:03
2011-07-23 18:33:47 - Re: Mark rounding
The big stink about mark rounding started in the Round Texada Island race Nov. 17, 2009. There was an offshore mark at the north end of Texada island. The next mark was well south of the southern end of the island. A number of people, myself included, Rounded the mark and then went back to the main channel on the west of the island. There was better wind and an easier course to follow while finishing a night's sleep. There was much hue and cry following this because many people thought we should have left the entire Texada Isalnd to starboard.

This lead to the start on Nov. 21, 2009 of the Almost Round Texada Island Race. "Almost" so that people would know it was not necessary to go to the east channel. It also lead to the placing of the north Texada mark on shore and placing another mark at the southern end of the island at the end of the east channel in the Round Texada Island 2010 race, Nov. 6, 2010.

In the San Juan Islands race in March 2010. It seems the question came up again: here
I did not participate in the San Juan race as I was tied up in getting my boat ready to bring down the coast to Santa Cruz. So I missed a lot of the conversion and the resulting changes to the code in the server.

In the Round Britain and Ireland race, July 31, 2010, I was rounding Muckle Flugga, received a rounded mark indication, and then turned back to go to the west of the islands for more wind and a better angle. I came back some time later and found my boat had been "unrounded" and I was losing many places. See the posts here:

Now in the recent Tall Ships leg 2, a number of ships (most notably the leader) did exactly the same thing and it was allowed by the server.

Whatever the outcome of the whole thing is, the most important thing is to create some consistency to the rule.

Maybe instead of complex code math that says if a certain line or lines from the mark are crossed the mark is rounded, but if a line or lines are recrossed the the mark is unrounded we need something a bit simpler. Say what if the intent of the course is that Unst be left to starboard, then why not have the mark on the south end of Unst, thereby forcing a course that leaves Unst to starboard.

---------------
edited to make links fit column width

--- Last Edited by RainbowChaser at 2011-07-24 11:25:23 ---
Posted by
NZL_PaulR


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2011-07-23 22:15:18 - Re: Mark rounding
Yes placing a few more marks on the course, even if you do NOT have to go closely by them, will SIMPLY solve a lot of programming issues.

I like U/C's simple approach

Mark 1, then round mark 1A; 2, then 2A as in olympic or windward-leeward americas cup courses.
If it breaks, it's not strong enough!
Posted by
RainbowChaser


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2009-06-14 09:44:50
2011-07-24 11:35:29 - Re: Mark rounding
It is important, however, to get a balance between enough marks to make sure the racing line is followed, but not so many that a race simply becomes a "follow-the-leader" from early on.

As soon as a race appears on the Homepage the sol boat is registered so everyone can log in as sol (Username: sol / Password:sol) and have a look at the course.

At this stage please would folks make a point of checking the course over to ensure that no "fouls" can occur? Adding waypoints, moving waypoints (including the start and finish) is possible now without causing annoyance or confusion to anyone.

SO.. when you see a race on the Homepage and on reviewing it you spot a problem, just shout out in the chat of an open race OR post a note in the Races or Race Proposals Forums OR email me. All routes lead to possible changes.

Together we should be able to eliminate possible "rogue" waypoints!! :-D

--- Last Edited by RainbowChaser at 2011-07-24 11:36:55 ---
Posted by
captjack1942


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2011-07-26 20:46:47 - Re: Mark rounding
I guess long posts tend to lull people into a trance like state, or we tend to see only what we think we see. So the paragraph below somehow failed make the connection to comprehension.



captjack1942 said @ 2011-07-23 18:33:47:
Maybe instead of complex code math that says if a certain line or lines from the mark are crossed the mark is rounded, but if a line or lines are recrossed the the mark is unrounded we need something a bit simpler. Say what if the intent of the course is that Unst be left to starboard, then why not have the mark on the south end of Unst, thereby forcing a course that leaves Unst to starboard.


Maybe a couple of pictures?
Attachments
Posted by
ShamrockPirate


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2011-07-27 02:29:16 - Re: Mark rounding
Jack,

An elegantly simple solution as I am always better with picture books!

This thread was just SCREAMING for a limerick.... and I oblige.

limericks

-------------
edited to change url to link

--- Last Edited by RainbowChaser at 2011-07-27 13:45:44 ---
Posted by
sol


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2008-08-14 11:08:14
2011-07-28 04:39:06 - Re: Mark rounding
captjack1942 said @ 2011-07-26 20:46:47:
I guess long posts tend to lull people into a trance like state, or we tend to see only what we think we see. So the paragraph below somehow failed make the connection to comprehension.



captjack1942 said @ 2011-07-23 18:33:47:
Maybe instead of complex code math that says if a certain line or lines from the mark are crossed the mark is rounded, but if a line or lines are recrossed the the mark is unrounded we need something a bit simpler. Say what if the intent of the course is that Unst be left to starboard, then why not have the mark on the south end of Unst, thereby forcing a course that leaves Unst to starboard.


Maybe a couple of pictures?

========================
I didn't fail to connect, just doesn't solve the problem...
So what is supposed to happen in the middle of an ocean? Marks cannot always be placed on land...
Compared to much in SOL, the math isn't complex - quite simple Geometry really...

---------------
WILL WHOEVER POSTED THIS PLEASE EDIT IT AND ADD YOUR NAME TO IT!

--- Last Edited by RainbowChaser at 2011-07-28 21:19:16 ---
Posted by
AGage


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2011-07-30 07:13:01 - Re: Mark rounding
Sorry that was me - didn't notice I was logged in as sol...!
I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
Posted by
captjack1942


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2011-07-30 15:06:06 - Re: Mark rounding
There is no problem in the open sea. The hassle only arises when there is an island to be rounded. Or at least the intent of the race is to leave the island to port or starboard. The question never comes up in the open ocean nor when the mark is placed on large land mass.

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