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Board » General Discussion » Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??

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Posted by RainbowChaser Posts 2656 Registered at 2009-06-14 09:44:50	2011-04-05 09:18:27 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	I think the lesson learned from the second-person-steering that provoked the initial question in this thread is that if someone is going to go to the assistance of another SOL boat they should just do it, quietly, if they know beyond question that it is what the other skipper would want. SOL is a navigation simulation and not real-life, and thus it is not always possible to be at the computer when course changes are needed. There are options. Set your own DCs and see how it goes. Set your own DCs but get a chum to check their firing in light of new wx. Ask someone to steer your boat for a few hours while you are not available to do so. Anything beyond that, in my view, is not appropriate. I fall into the first category - OK so my password is not to be shared as I am SOL Admin BUT even before then I very rarely asked someone to steer for a short time. But I did. Shouting out in Chat that someone has beached is I think a very community-spirited thing to do. It lets folks know there is a problem and, means that someone reading it, if they have steered for someone in the past, can quietly decide if they are going to make a course change or not. It also adds to the energy of chat - folks home in on the beached vessel, check in GE what the coastline is like in reality and is therefore a good thing to do. Announcing publicly that you are about to change course for someone might not be such a good idea though. So my personal suggestions, if you are going to boatsit for a short while are: (1) make sure you pre-agree what you are meant to be doing and if its for a significant portion of a race and there is no separate course planned, think twice about boatsitting! (2) if there is no pre-agreement only make a course change if the other boat is beached or very clearly heading in a direction that can have no possible good outcome. In this case, send a courtesy email before steering the other boat - you aren't a mind-reader and cannot know why a boat has been abandoned. If you don't have the email address then don't change anything - you don't know the other skipper well enough! If you cans end an emailbut don't get a reply then really think twice about making any change.
Posted by NZL_undercover Posts 65 Registered at 2009-07-31 03:29:32	2011-04-05 09:35:58 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Thanks Philip Not to much offense taken...
Posted by Rod Posts 392 Registered at 2010-06-24 22:30:48	2011-04-05 13:32:33 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	I thank you, Agage, for your correction---my last Latin was sixty-five years ago and I'm probably more than rusty. The general principle in argumentation (not quarreling!) of taking a line of reasoning to its extreme is still valid. If the extreme becomes absurd, the line of reasoning is generally absurd as well. This present situation in SOL has become unsupportable, showing quite clearly that a new set of rules is needed. Or a new clarification. --- Last Edited by Rod at 2011-04-05 18:15:26 --- If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by ita10267 Posts 88 Registered at 2008-12-29 10:33:09	2011-04-05 13:54:27 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	@Rod, are you in the position of enforcing new rules? Can you enlighten us about the "corpus legis"? Will it be possible for us, relentless cheaters, to participate in SOL regattas? But, seriously, don't you think that as me and UC have apologized, Exmeromotu requested a RAF and Kalle&RC have clarified SOL approach to boatsitting we should consider this thread as a closed subject?
Posted by Rod Posts 392 Registered at 2010-06-24 22:30:48	2011-04-05 18:13:45 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Like you, I can only read the rules as they are written in the manual.If the rules have been changed, but not written down in the rules manual, how am I to interpret their meaning? I cannot scan back through several-years-worth of chatroom and/or forum discussions to determine which exemptions are allowed and which are not. And, no, I do not enforce the rules, I just race according to them. P.s. I just went back and studied the section 1.18, listed as frequently asked questions (FAQ). It seems quite clear that two persons can "share" a boat. What is not clear is whether each of those two persons can have a boat each. That is precisely the point that needs to be clarified. --- Last Edited by Rod at 2011-04-05 18:29:08 --- --- Last Edited by Rod at 2011-04-05 18:29:53 --- If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by ita10267 Posts 88 Registered at 2008-12-29 10:33:09	2011-04-05 18:48:03 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Repetita Iuvant Quoting SOL Manual v.4 - Chapter 8 - FAQ Q: Can me and a friend "share" a boat although we do not share the same computer, or even live in the same country? A: Yes, no problem. Just share your login details and you are all set to share the boat. Only question is -do you trust your friend? To me it is clearly stated, and so it has been intepreted by everyone so far, that two people can share the boat handling, a.k.a. boatsitting. If I am wrong I would hear it from the SOL Gods.
Posted by RainbowChaser Posts 2656 Registered at 2009-06-14 09:44:50	2011-04-05 20:20:35 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Please would you all go back and read what I wrote earlier today. Constructive criticism only please!! There is enough negativity in the world without it permeating SOL! As my mother used to say, if you can't find something good to say then don't say anything! This was when talking about people or situations - always find solutions!!
Posted by NZL_PaulR Posts 311 Registered at 2008-07-22 12:21:30	2011-04-05 21:15:46 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	I agree RC. SHOUTING: A fun thing to do in chat. It's amazing how often many SoLers are asleep or deaf!! or both?? If one has shared their password, then they are responsible for their action. One can easily change one's password to stop others "interferring" with one's plans. I support the existing situation and do NOT want any rules about sharing. If one is IRL sailing, working or travelling then sharing / boat sitting is OK. Just sleeping, possibly NO boat sitting. Get an alarm clock and have a bedside laptop . . . or have a decent sleep and it will be a nice surprise to see how well or badly you have done when you awake. 2 Hour power naps are OK, just like real life short handed sailing!! Be brave?? Kick the wife / girlfriend out of your warm snug bed to check all is OK on SoL. Yeah!! great idea. Dream on!!! If it breaks, it's not strong enough!
Posted by ybwlopud Posts 6 Registered at 2008-10-08 18:12:45	2011-04-05 21:41:44 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	ita10267 said @ 2011-04-05 18:48:03: Repetita Iuvant Quoting SOL Manual v.4 - Chapter 8 - FAQ Q: Can me and a friend "share" a boat although we do not share the same computer, or even live in the same country? A: Yes, no problem. Just share your login details and you are all set to share the boat. Only question is -do you trust your friend? To me it is clearly stated, and so it has been intepreted by everyone so far, that two people can share the boat handling, a.k.a. boatsitting. If I am wrong I would hear it from the SOL Gods. To me that implies 2 people one boat A.K.A a team. Dictionary definition is: "YourDictionary defines teamwork as the actions of individuals, brought together for a common purpose or goal, which subordinate the needs of the individual to the needs of the group. In essence, each person on the team puts aside his or her individual needs to work towards the larger group objective. The interactions among the members and the work they complete is called teamwork. --- Last Edited by ybwlopud at 2011-04-05 21:42:27 ---
Posted by AGage Posts 411 Registered at 2008-12-27 10:31:57	2011-04-06 04:56:54 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	kalle said @ 2011-04-01 21:04:15: The rules are clear, max 1 boat per person, but not limit on number of people per boat. This rules comes from practicality and enforceability. Boat sitting is explicitly allowed (and AFAIK it is in all similar online venues). So, it's not cheating, it's not unfair (since it's explicitly stated) and it's acceptable. I'm sorry Andrea but this is the only post Kalle has made in this thread, and it clears nothing up - until boat-sitting is clarified. 1) You are allowed ONE boat... 2) If you wish to sail as a group, then you don't get your own boat, only one between you.... 3) But you can always ignore these rules and call it 'boat-sitting'... It is the very definition of boat-sitting that needs clarification, and this is the 3rd time in this thread I have asked for the rulemakers to please clarify it. DEFINE it PLEASE. a) A pre-arranged agreement because the skipper cannot login to SOL for whatever reason? b) Just swap passwords and jump in and change whenever you feel the other needs it? I had always interpreted the allowance of boat-sitting to mean "at the skipper of that boat's request", but it seems boat-sitting goes beyond this, and has been for some time. Edit: RC, you should have 2 accounts anyway, 1 for racing and 1 for admin.... THat would also allow you the advantage of the occasional boatsit if you so choose. --- Last Edited by Aaron Gage at 2011-04-06 04:58:54 --- I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__

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