Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » General Discussion » Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??

Page: Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Last

Posted by
Rod


Users avatar

Posts
392
Registered at
2010-06-24 22:30:48
2011-04-04 16:41:10 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
Would anyone object if I set up a Consortium of 20 people located strategically around the world, collectively running some 60 boats, using all the routing programs available, and with advance knowledge of the weather, because some will be working at NOAA?
Would anyone object if we set up an elite group of those sailors who were 'entitled' to win races by missing the turn Marks?
If the answer is "NO", then I will need to find another hobby.
I will await with considerable interest the collective SOL reply.
P.S. It is a well recognized technique in philosophical argument to postulate an extreme position---it is called "Argumentum ad absurdum". It does wonders in clarifying muddy arguments.
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
ita10267


Users avatar

Posts
88
Registered at
2008-12-29 10:33:09
2011-04-04 17:18:25 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
@Rod
Is your dream team forbidden by the rules? You can't.

Is it allowed by the rules?
Please do. I (and many others) will have an extreme fun to compete against such a team without whining. And even more fun to beat them consistently.
Posted by
Rod


Users avatar

Posts
392
Registered at
2010-06-24 22:30:48
2011-04-04 17:50:56 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
I do not WANT to set up any such 60 boat consortium---but IF I did, would you ever know it????
If it is 'forbidden' for 60, why should it be 'legal' for 2 ???
The "Rules of the Game"are for everyone.
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
ita10267


Users avatar

Posts
88
Registered at
2008-12-29 10:33:09
2011-04-04 18:23:18 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
@Rod.
A Consortium of 60 is not forbidden, nor it is a Consortium of 1000 skipper. What it is clearly forbidden by the rules is, for a single skipper so have more than one boat used for its own advantage.

Again, as Kalle has stated, boatsitting is allowed so our discussion here it is meaningless until the rules are changed. Till that moment I will not add any comment to the topic.

Over and out.
Posted by
Tempest


Users avatar

Posts
79
Registered at
2009-06-16 17:44:17
2011-04-04 18:29:45 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
As the rules state "boatsitting "is allowed however

From the FAQ

Q: Can me and a friend "share" a boat although we do not share the same computer, or even live in the same country?

A: Yes, no problem. Just share your login details and you are all set to share the boat. Only question is - do you trust your friend?

Q: Why is it not allowed to have more than one boat?

A: We like to give all players a fair chance, multiple boats is considered cheating and therefore not allowed.


My question is when becomes "boatsitting" sailing 2 vessels with 2 persons,or 3 vessels with 3 persons which according to the above is at least doubtful behaviour.

To my opinion the rules are not very clear in that respect and may need some further clarification.

If people are teaming up like that have at least the sportmanship to register one boat as a team and leave the other boats ashore.
I am still not a big fan of team boats but can live with it when openly admitted. Hope you don't mind if I stick to single handed sailing.

Rescueing other vessels is something else but to compare it to IRL i think is taking it one step to far . Haven't heard any mayday's on the radio lately.

To my opinion it can be seen as boatsitting in extremis but I am no fan of it.
But if accepted by this community i go with the majority.

Tempest



Posted by
NZL_undercover


Users avatar

Posts
65
Registered at
2009-07-31 03:29:32
2011-04-04 20:39:37 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
My thoughts :)

Boat sitting is allowed within the rules.

I do agree that myself jumping into Exmeromotu's boat the other day with out him asking me too was bending the boat sitting rule........
It was done with no thought to ranking or with no thought to the effect on other sailors.
It was done openly as there was nothing to hide.

Exmeromotu and Undercover do not run any sort of team boat and openly compete against each other.

We do on occasion boat sit for each other as already stated. I also have 2 other sailors that can boat sit for me.

I think probably 2-3 times in the last 18 months we have jumped into each others boats in times of need.

If the community decide that jumping in is beyond the boat sitting rule then this activity will stop immediately.

I don't think either of us have anything to hide and are both honest competitors that really enjoy the SOLing world.

Cheers Undercover

PS......don't read anything into my boat name :) :)
Posted by
WIN


Users avatar

Posts
356
Registered at
2009-07-09 23:32:07
2011-04-04 22:05:08 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
Rod....
As you have laid on the table "argomentum ad absurdum " ;) ..and I am fluent in Latin , I feel the duty to contribute my opinion to your queries , and I in bona fide believe that many Solers interprete the rules same way as I do :

1) the rule is "one skipper one boat" ..NOT one boat one skipper " ( quite different )
2) Syndicates ( consortiums ) have been declared legal by Sailport ( one boat multiple skippers )
3) boatsitting requires clarification ( agree with AGage ). To me it has always meant : "I will not be able to be at helm from such hour till such hour..please can you keep an eye on my boat to avoid any rocks..?? " When I know that I cannot be at helm at least 90/95% of a race time , then I do not start my boat .
4) Sailport has not declared illegal any software so far. Besides Sailport proposes Sailplanner. Using software or not is personal choice, but I would be extremely favourable to single races for non routers .The fact that some may cheat is rubbish . We are all sportmen and gentlemen ( gentle ladies as well ), and if there is one who is not would be immediatly visible by many means.
5) The shouting for anyone going astray or beaching is controversial . Honestly it is part of my sport experience and culture to beat my competition on the water , and not because their boat has wrecked on the rocks , but still understand those who feel robbed because someone had saved their direct competitor . Honestly I do not think that a personal behaviour of genlemanship with good and bad effects can be subject of any ruling.
6) Since many many moons now the correct rounding of marks has been enforced and the server DOES reject irregular roundings , so NO , you cannot have a team allowed to bypass that rule ...., BUT ...YES ..you can have on board people working for NOAA . In SOL there is no discriminatory rule in that respect . My advice though is that they would know about the weather exactly same time as you do through the gribs .

And finally ....Rod ...

SURSUM CORDA !!!!
(good courage and stay happy !! )

ciao all ;) ;) ;)
WIN
Posted by
Rod


Users avatar

Posts
392
Registered at
2010-06-24 22:30:48
2011-04-04 23:06:57 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
The exact wording of the "One skipper, one boat" and "One boat, one skipper" instruction escapes me at the moment, but somehow I do not find that the two sentences have different meanings. Perhaps this problem need definite clarification.
The Mark turning problem does not apply to the Main races--it occurs only in the informal "practice races" where the computer is not involved. Because of the way in which the computer updates the course lines only at several-minute-intervals, a competitor cannot see whether a Mark has been turned correctly, or not, until several minutes later. There are techniques available whereby a competitor can later view his own (and any other boat's) course at high magnification, and remove all doubt about a correct rounding. If a competitor feels any doubt about whether a Mark was turned correctly, it is easy to check. No penalty has been incurred UNTIL the finish line has been crossed, when the boat either has finished correctly, or is 'Disqualified' for failure to complete the course.
In no way has this interfered with either the 'enjoyment' or the 'practice' of these 'practice races'. It only determines whether the competitor can validly claim a "WIN" or a "Position" in the finishing order.
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
76Trombones


Users avatar

Posts
362
Registered at
2009-08-03 18:04:56
2011-04-05 02:44:08 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
Clamo, clamatis, omnes clamamus pro glace lactis
Posted by
NZL_PaulR


Users avatar

Posts
311
Registered at
2008-07-22 12:21:30
2011-04-05 02:54:54 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
Perhaps when entering a race, one should declare wether they are using "routing software" or not.

Just like IRL entering a spinnaker or non-spinnaker division of a race. The results leaderboard could show this.

Will people cheat or wrongly declare? Possibly but then again most of us all sail IRL and for me I would not. Just like using your motor if it is calm!!

Previously I have stated, SOL is a great place to learn "HOW" to use routing software. I have used the Sail Planner, but currently do not use any routing software; relying entitrely on SOTP v5.9.
(Seat of the Pants)
If it breaks, it's not strong enough!

Page: Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Last

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

SSANZ Round North Island Race 2026 - Leg 4

The final challenge awaits in Leg Four of the Round North Island Series! From Napier, the fleet sets off on a 354 nautical mile run back to Auckland, completing the full circumnavigation where the journey began. Fatigue may be setting in, but this last leg could decide the overall standings. Sailing the fast and responsive Sun Fast 3600, our skippers will need sharp tactics and steady focus to finish the series strong and claim victory!

The start time for this race may change at short notice to align with the real race. The confirmed start date and time will be announced via an in-race “L” flag message — Please monitor race communications closely.
Race #2014
INFO by brainaid.de
Sun Fast 3600 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: RNI - SUPBUD - SYC
Race starts: Mar 13th 21:00 Registration will open soon
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

SSANZ Round North Island Race 2026 - Leg 3

Leg Three of our Round North Island Series, in partnership with SSANZ, keeps the pressure on! From Cook Strait, the fleet turns north for a 187 nautical mile passage up the east coast to Napier. It may look like a quick overnighter, but shifting coastal winds and the ever-lively Cook Strait demand sharp focus. In our responsive Sun Fast 3600s, a proven short-handed racer and powerful downwind performer, tactical decisions and precise timing will make all the difference!

The start time for this race may change at short notice to align with the real race. The confirmed start date and time will be announced via an in-race “L” flag message — Please monitor race communications closely.
Race #2013
INFO by brainaid.de
Sun Fast 3600 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: RNI - SUPBUD - SYC
Race starts: Mar 08th 22:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Dyer Dhow Derby 2026


Most winter weekends, SOLer wsguerin and his friends at the Mamaroneck Frostbite Association venture forth on Long Island Sound to race Dyer Dhows, originally designed as WWII tenders. Indestructible little boats, great comradeship and serious short sharp races of 10 to 20 minutes duration. Sailonline now invites you to experience the joys of the Dhow in winter, virtually, by way of a slightly longer 14nm race: from Mamaroneck to Execution Rocks, over to the Gong Buoy and back to Mamaroneck. And if the wind pipes up to 20kn and beyond, you'll find SOL's customized polar will plane, rather than nosedive!
Race #2017
INFO by brainaid.de
Dyer Dhow PARTICULARS
NAM_AWIP WX Updates:
0245 / 0845 / 1445 / 2045
Ranking: SPQ1 - SPCH - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Wednesday,
March 11 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Mar 07th 13:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

South China Sea Race 2026


Welcome all to the South China Sea and a virtual chase in Cookson 50’s of the Rolex South China Sea fleet, racing 650nm – as the local red-footed booby flies – from Hong Kong to Subic Bay on the southern tip of The Philippines’ Luzon Island. Chances are it will be a fast downwind ride, so see how you can keep up with the real-life fleet which we hope to be able to follow on our monitors.
Race #2016
INFOby brainaid.de
Cookson 50 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SUPBUD - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
March 14 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Mar 04th 03:20 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Iceland to the Falklands 2026

Welcome to an all-new route, the first of three Round the 'Old World' of Europe, Africa, Australia and Asia. To give each leg of the ROW a bit of length we'll try to hug the coasts as little as possible, so starting in Iceland our first leg of the series, which will also be the final leg of our Quarter 1 Ocean Championships takes us 7200nm to the Falklands, the full length of the Atlantic end to end. To make sure we'll get it done within the month we'll be sailing our Maxi Trimaran.
Race #2010
INFO by brainaid.de
Maxi Trimaran PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ1 - ROW - OCCH - SYC
Race starts: Mar 02nd 11:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

San Diego to Puerto Vallarta 2026

Welcome to California! Established in 1953 this 1000-mile run from San Diego to Puerto Vallarta on the Mexican Riviera has become a tradition and online as well the tradition strengthens with this the fourth time Sailonline is making the race available to virtual sailors. Let's see how our virtual SC70s perform against the real fleet!
Race #2015
INFO by brainaid.de
Santa Cruz 70 Particulars
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SUPBUD - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Friday,
March 13 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Feb 28th 20:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member vida
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rumskib
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Sax747
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CollegeFund
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Panpyc
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member sassy63

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client