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Board » General Discussion » Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??

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Posted by ita10267 Posts 88 Registered at 2008-12-29 10:33:09	2011-04-06 06:05:41 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Aaron, since the early days of SOL the term boatsitting has been used to define the mutual help between sailors to share each other boats destiny (i.e. by sharing the updates burden). This has always been accepted without any problem. Now this topic, IMHO, is subtly (and willingly?) switching from the UC/Exmero fact (which is resolved given the will of Exmero to be RAF) during Leg 6 of RTW race to more personal stuff. In particular, us sailing the ITA_2011 boat. We have clearly stated that when ITA_2011 is sailing the personal boats remain ashore, with the exception of Gilles during RTW because he asked the other ITA team members to be free from ITA duties and to sail his own boat. We stated this clearly in the forum and we have obeyed to this SELF imposed rule. Now every discussion seems to trigger a recurrent problem with some of the users and our teamboat ITA_2011. Since this discussion will never reach to an agreed conclusion I would ask you to refer directly to the organizers of this game and call for ruling. Since we are all competing according to SOL rules, this should eventually be accepted by anyone.
Posted by Jeroen Posts 245 Registered at 2007-08-15 09:17:47	2011-04-06 08:23:00 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Thank you all for your posts in this topic. I wan't to reply to the comments made earlier, we are looking at this with great interest and trying to work out a workable sollution for this issue. We have had this discussion a few times before but we are still looking for a way to implement this directly on the server side. We wan't to avoid subjective ruling as much as possible and we are very hessistant to limit the current user freedom. Limiting acces to a single ip will also limit the freedom to check Sol on the road and at work. Also we strongly feel that Sol must be a open and fair community to all. We are looking at some general rules to adres this initialy on the basis of a fair use policy. So we can adress the obvious cases. Please let me know your thoughts on that idea, so we can turn this discussion into something productive. Jeroen I am a ex-admin of SOL who joins in from time to time.
Posted by WhyNot Posts 51 Registered at 2011-02-03 18:39:54	2011-04-06 09:57:10 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Is it possible to change SOL and not the rules? Add three "flags" to each boat: -Routing -Sharing -Single-handed, Own brain only. Update the client to show own catagory only. Change the server to rank according to category. Commit to a category when entering a race. Leave the categories to be a matter of trust.
Posted by Rod Posts 392 Registered at 2010-06-24 22:30:48	2011-04-06 15:47:40 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Our rules state that a sailor can have only one boat. This is stated when you register a boat. The FAQ section states:- Q: Can me and a friend "share" a boat although we do not share the same computer, or even live in the same country? A: Yes, no problem. Just share your login details and you are all set to share the boat. Only question is - do you trust your friend? Q: Why is it not allowed to have more than one boat? A: We like to give all players a fair chance, multiple boats is considered cheating and therefore not allowed. Are the FAQs part of the rules? These are the things which need to be clarified. This is NOT an accusation of cheating---it is just 'confusion'. --- Last Edited by Rod at 2011-04-06 15:50:02 --- If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by ybwlopud Posts 6 Registered at 2008-10-08 18:12:45	2011-04-06 23:26:45 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Maybe someting as simple as a prefix to the boat name ie 1ybwlopud indicating one skipper or 2ybwlopud indicating 2 people are able to control the boat etc. This would enable you to quickly see in the boat names those boats with only 1 skipper for example by entering 1 in the search box
Posted by NZL_PaulR Posts 311 Registered at 2008-07-22 12:21:30	2011-04-07 09:12:37 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Ybwlopud: Certainly one idea that would indicate "division" but would NOT reflect in the results. Further each race you would have a different boat name possibly, which would further make more server traffic loads. I would prefer that when you "ENTER" for any race, at the same time you select a boat type (but most races these days have only one boat type to choose from) one would additionally TICK (select) if you use "Routing Software", and if have more than one skipper (boat sharing). Otherwise you would be assumed to be a single skipper (Solo) with NO outside (routing software) help. The BOAT Tab could have two extra colums indicating if you have Software and/or more than one skipper. Additionally a declaration or change of status pop-up question where you can change the status for that race if necessary. Then the results could have "divisional" results. Therefore even though I finished in 127th fleet position, I was also 67th in "No Routing Software division" but amazingly a wonderful 35th in the "Single Skipper / Solo" division = YIPPEE!!!!!! The results leaderboard only needs 2 extra columns for "places" and be able to be sorted on that basis. --- Last Edited by Paul Rosser at 2011-04-07 09:15:29 --- If it breaks, it's not strong enough!
Posted by Gilles Posts 127 Registered at 2009-07-18 11:05:22	2011-04-07 09:30:14 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Paul, and all... (but not directly to Paul who has done many good points here, regardind skipper responsibility, time sleep etc...) if you know, which boat is sailing how, you can work yourself the "YIPPEE!!!!!!" parts. I always know who are my "direct" competitor. I do not need someone who tell me who is using a router, and I do not care, as I know I can beat any router with my brain 90% of the time. Let me ask to you and other sailors: till now in which category would put me in the actual Ron Miel regata? to not bother in case the answer is: SOTP, single hand, no routing no sleeping. --- Last Edited by Gilles at 2011-04-07 09:39:33 ---
Posted by Jeroen Posts 245 Registered at 2007-08-15 09:17:47	2011-04-07 09:44:36 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Great feedback guys I certainly like the idea of divisions even if its just a gentlemans agreement - honesty thing. I also like the idea that Paul suggested to make this choice for individual races. Even though this would require some more bells and whistles to actualy make that work. This allows for a different approach in short and longer races too. I understand the best way it to reflect this in the client in some way but that would certainly be a bit tricky keeping it simple and sleak like we want too. A easier way is to reflect this in serries and Sol rankings on the main page. This is my personal opinion on this but I will have a chat and see if we can fit this into actual development. --- Last Edited by Jeroen Tiel at 2011-04-07 11:18:51 --- I am a ex-admin of SOL who joins in from time to time.
Posted by WhyNot Posts 51 Registered at 2011-02-03 18:39:54	2011-04-07 10:52:36 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Gilles: I belive you are sailing "own brain" as I am, but I take advantage of the "routers" choices a lot of the time. I actually caught up to # 19 by chosing different than "routers", but then I got cockey (porce miseria) and made a stupid mistake aproaching Tenerife 2 which put me back where I belong.
Posted by NZL_PaulR Posts 311 Registered at 2008-07-22 12:21:30	2011-04-07 19:48:41 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Thanks Jeroen. I strongly believe we need a declaration AFTER the finish, which is more important than at entry time, to confirm no "changes" have been made during the race. Thus you may enter as "solo skipper" but if you run aground or sail wildly off course, then are rescued by somebody else, you can alter your status from "solo" to "multiple" skipper (boat sitting) for the final results. --- Last Edited by Paul Rosser at 2011-04-07 19:50:57 --- If it breaks, it's not strong enough!

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