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Board » General Discussion » Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??

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Posted by AGage Posts 411 Registered at 2008-12-27 10:31:57	2011-07-15 13:26:16 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	BigRayRay said @ 2011-07-14 05:59:34: I sail solo. I sleep 8 hours and work about 10. When I first started soling I thought boats were playing follow the leader taking advantage of the good sailor's skills ======================= So, for example, you thought WINSTON or ita or whoever was ahead was the only capable of t\leading, or just the only one putting any real thought into the race, and the rest were just following?? LOL Take a good close look at the top 10s' tracks - even differences from further down - every one of the small adjustments is deliberate and well thought out - adjust line just .3nm, parallel & to the SSW, because there is .15kn more wind on that line and a 1/2 degree better twa - you bet! Yes... the SOLers who win or do well consistently DO think about every - little - edge they can squeeze out. (Hence only minutes, often, between top times over 100+Nm) And for the 'follow the leader', how come we get multiple winners?? The tracks are all the same because, of course, if you have X very talented (and dedicated) navigators you will (& should) get X very similar tracks... - not to mention even to follow that closely/accurately takes much effort... BigRayRay said @ 2011-07-14 05:59:34: but now I understand it's 5 or 10 guys sailing each others boats. Rest assured if I ever win a race. I will have won the race on my own. ========================= UC is right though, this just isn't realistic... There is only one (very well known) team-boat, and they have also been shown to be beatable. I may not be in the overall top 10, but I am (very proudly) 8th in the Week champs (after ST Lawrence) and have had 2 hard earned 2nds. I have never had my boat controlled by another - it is my effort during those 'race critical' sections - even at 3.30am - hours making minute adjustments to shave a few seconds here and there of time enroute, and by not missing a wx update and spending plenty of time thinking about the race. I am certain those 9 boats you will spy if you glance right on any SOL page, below the race list, are all individuals putting in (much) individual effort... 2 of which are 'giving a SOL lesson' in the TransAt as I write this! This really needs to be said and understood IMHO because I really think perceptions like this are doing alot of damage to SOL, are too wide spread, seem to be on the rise, and are simply not true... --- Last Edited by Aaron Gage at 2011-07-15 15:39:34 --- I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
Posted by Jawz Posts 154 Registered at 2009-07-21 09:51:19	2011-07-15 16:10:52 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Hi Big Ray! Don't let it get under your skin, this issue has been around forever! I admit that I have used a boatsitter and still do to maintain my position. You see I'm not a router and the only way I can compete is to pay full attention to SOL. When work or life interferes I call my brother and ask him to turn a waypoint. In essence I'm doing this for me. Tallships leg 2 I was lying first after the bottom wp, then work, then sleep and hey I hit the beach and its over. Long story I know! An example tho, in the only short weekend race I've ever won, the last 6 hours I had a spreadsheet going where I was logging my top competition, 8 boats' every move, ie what cc they were sailing. My only win was very hard earned and I was on line the whole race. The moral? We will never know who is sailing what boat and there is NO way of stopping boatsitting and winning takes dedication and/or software. I would suggest going the same way as our Italian friends. I've thought of entering either a South African crewboat or a Southern Hemisphere crewboat to give these boats some competition. My only issue is I don't use software so longer races I can't plan. Anyway, my helper boat Henrys(my brother staying 1400km away does a good job when I need him to. Enjoy the sailing for yourself in the full knowledge that you will be learning the subtlties and your position is a reflection of your abilities. Hell, I've been doing this for 2 years and although my dedication to be on the club leaderboard has wained, I still get a huge thrill with a top 20 finish. Regards George(Jawz)
Posted by BigRayRay Posts 7 Registered at 2010-08-14 02:55:40	2011-07-16 22:39:53 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Let me say that I believe I may have insulted a few members here. It shouldn't be an excuse but I'll use it anyway. I was drunk. Drunkenness has been the cause of quite a few of my embarrassing moments. SOL is my favorite game. I have a lot of respect for the guys who perform well and the guys like me who push on to the finish lines. So the point of this post is to apologize and say I'm sorry for anyone I offended. I hope to meet some of you folks in real life one day. Sometime in the next ten years I will run the Newport to Bermuda race again on my boat and hope to have a few beers in peace with my virtual friends here.
Posted by AGage Posts 411 Registered at 2008-12-27 10:31:57	2011-07-17 10:52:54 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	No offence taken (by me anyway) - just pointing out that point of view isn't quite realistic I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
Posted by Jawz Posts 154 Registered at 2009-07-21 09:51:19	2011-07-17 10:56:59 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	No offence here as well. Just enjoyment!
Posted by sol Posts 296 Registered at 2008-08-14 11:08:14	2011-07-18 00:15:50 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	--- Last Edited by sol at 2011-07-18 00:16:18 --- --- Last Edited by sol at 2011-07-18 00:17:25 ---
Posted by NZL_undercover Posts 65 Registered at 2009-07-31 03:29:32	2011-07-18 00:18:41 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Some offense taken by me but you have apologized which I accept and we will move on from here. Drinking has the same effect on me so I tend to avoid it as much as possible these days I didnt think you could post as SOL any more??
Posted by ita10267 Posts 88 Registered at 2008-12-29 10:33:09	2011-07-18 08:30:30 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Apologies accepted as they come with good heart. ita10267
Posted by Capt.D.P. Posts 66 Registered at 2009-10-27 01:51:32	2011-07-19 09:38:03 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Sailing in top 10 positions is a hard job and it needs a lot of time in front of the computer especially in shorter or medium races.Of course routers are advantaged as they just copy the courses and turning times which the router give them and program accordingly. Now we spend several days by waking up in the night and than sometimes you are not able to be at the computer along the shore/islands and you have to program by taking big round in order not to get aground and of course you lose the positions as there are at least 50 good solers who sail well and take advantage.In the cases like this several times I took advantage of the kindness of soler CALAMITY which turned my boat.Is this cheating? I doubt it strongly. africa --- Last Edited by Capt.D.P. at 2011-07-19 09:38:59 ---
Posted by captjack1942 Posts 239 Registered at 2008-01-18 03:24:03	2011-07-23 03:34:40 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	11 pages on this? Why? It was answered quite well on page 1. "The rules are clear, max 1 boat per person, but not limit on number of people per boat. This rules comes from practicality and enforceability. Boat sitting is explicitly allowed (and AFAIK it is in all similar online venues). So, it's not cheating, it's not unfair (since it's explicitly stated) and it's acceptable." Kalle Haglunds http://www.sailonline.org/board/thread/6077/is-it-cheating-unfair-or-acceptable/?page=1 6th post down

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