Sailonline.org - Online Sailing

Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Tweets by @sailonline

Board » Practice Racing » Mark Boat Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion

Page: 1 2 3 4 Next

Posted by RainbowChaser Posts 2656 Registered at 2009-06-14 09:44:50	2011-03-21 09:37:05 - Mark Boat Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	First off, thank you to all who brought the Mark Rounding debate into the Forum here. The Forum is definitely the best place for such discussions as we can all plan what we say! Second.. I would like to propose the following Rounding rules for the purposes of SOL Practice Racing: 1. Rounding a Mark is achieved when the track of a boat clearly passes the correct side of the central circle/mast of a Mark boat (when used) or clearly rounds an island. 2. Failure to round a Mark gives the skipper two choices (a) carry on racing but fall out of the rankings (b) undertake a penalty turn, of at least two course changes that are visible in the track, and remain included in rankings. --- Last Edited by RainbowChaser at 2011-03-28 16:38:13 ---
Posted by WhyNot Posts 51 Registered at 2011-02-03 18:39:54	2011-03-21 12:00:30 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	I think that sounds fine, but should we specify a duration of "one fleet update" between the two course changes?
Posted by Tazumaki Posts 46 Registered at 2009-08-10 15:21:39	2011-03-21 18:18:03 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	Tom: your idea is not very practical as there is no way to measure how long one is on a specific course and you have one fleet update every minute, but three or four personal updates. So if you know when the fleetupdate is to come, you change your course on the last personal update before that and may change back on your next update while others have to go three updates in the wrong direction. After a Track update every change is visible, even if it last for only one personal update and it is not possible to do more than one change in a personal update. I would propose to do a 360° by doing three course changes of about 120° in the same direction in a row as this is clearly visible in ones track after an update. --- Last Edited by Tazumaki at 2011-03-21 18:19:27 --- --- Last Edited by Tazumaki at 2011-03-21 18:20:33 ---
Posted by WhyNot Posts 51 Registered at 2011-02-03 18:39:54	2011-03-21 18:26:36 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	Taz, I think it is easy to see a fleetupdate. Just dont't watch your own boat. I see the following scenario: You are going to make a penalty turn. You watch an other vessel. She or he jumps - you make your first turn. He or she jumps again - you make your second turn etc. Or am I wrong? Edit: I did some experimenting to day. I made several course changes in rapid succession - as fast as the system would allow. Set new course, click button - set new course ( while button text is grey) click when text turns black - and so on. It doesnot take very long to do. It is my feeling that the greatest penalty is the performance loss. I think we need to formalize a duration. Tom --- Last Edited by Tom Nordahl at 2011-03-21 18:35:06 --- --- Last Edited by Tom Nordahl at 2011-03-21 18:36:24 --- --- Last Edited by Tom Nordahl at 2011-03-21 18:39:05 ---
Posted by Tazumaki Posts 46 Registered at 2009-08-10 15:21:39	2011-03-21 20:03:12 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	WhyNot said @ 2011-03-21 18:26:36: Taz, I think it is easy to see a fleetupdate. Just dont't watch your own boat. I see the following scenario: You are going to make a penalty turn. You watch an other vessel. She or he jumps - you make your first turn. He or she jumps again - you make your second turn etc. Or am I wrong? Edit: I did some experimenting to day. I made several course changes in rapid succession - as fast as the system would allow. Set new course, click button - set new course ( while button text is grey) click when text turns black - and so on. It doesnot take very long to do. It is my feeling that the greatest penalty is the performance loss. I think we need to formalize a duration. I dont think your wrong at all, but i don't know exactly if your hops (or your Timewindow for comands during a hop, to be precise) is really synchronised with the Fleet updates. But more important: your proposal may be cheated as it is not to tell how long one actually sailed his altered course. if you turn just before the fleetupdate and imediatly after, it will look allmost the same to others as if you sailed your course for a whole minute. I also have done these tests... each single comand is executed and you move one personal Hop in that direction. You can sea each comand after the trackupdate if you zoom in. So my proposal is to do allmost the same as what you would do at the mark... go back to your track, continue your old course untill you pass the mark and go to your new course. I only propose to do 120° three times as it is easier to see on the track. The duration is allready formalized, as the personal hops are of equal length for everyone.
Posted by newsartist Posts 41 Registered at 2009-08-20 03:01:55	2011-03-21 20:27:31 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	I think the whole subject is more intensity than we need to get involved with, After all, this is a fun race, not the America's Cup, (with lawyers.) Rounding the Central Dot of a Mark, is fine. ...or rounding a designated island without grounding. If an SLI is jumped, assume a high tide!
Posted by newsartist Posts 41 Registered at 2009-08-20 03:01:55	2011-03-21 20:35:00 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	If a Penalty is determined, I like the idea of the boat turning to the nearest Cardinal Direction to its present heading, then immediately on seeing the change, turning to the reciprocal of that, ...and then resuming racing. That guarantees the max perf hit. (...to be taken at any time before the Finish. Boats burdened by land may not be able to take it immediately.) Anything else but a penalty at the sailor's choice of time, destroys a boat that is on DC. --- Last Edited by newsartist at 2011-03-21 20:36:47 ---
Posted by K3 (Bernd) Posts 130 Registered at 2008-08-25 12:34:07	2011-03-21 21:36:52 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	10% of our fleet starts in the wrong direction (and I don't think of ±20°) 10% of our fleet don't knows the way to the first mark when it's not the finish line 10% of our boats are already abandoned when the 1st finishes And now you want us to sail 120° triangles as reparation? That's a big project! ciao Bernd
Posted by RainbowChaser Posts 2656 Registered at 2009-06-14 09:44:50	2011-03-21 22:45:38 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	K3- this is only for the short/informal practice races!! Not for the general SOL fleet at all
Posted by WhyNot Posts 51 Registered at 2011-02-03 18:39:54	2011-03-21 22:59:14 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
	Tazumaki said @ 2011-03-21 20:03:12: But more important: your proposal may be cheated as it is not to tell how long one actually sailed his altered course. if you turn just before the fleetupdate and imediatly after, it will look allmost the same to others as if you sailed your course for a whole minute. And therefore I think your 3x120 is a good idea. I also have done these tests... each single comand is executed and you move one personal Hop in that direction. You can sea each comand after the trackupdate if you zoom in. As to personal or fleet hop, I think the personal hop is to short a time. Tom

Page: 1 2 3 4 Next

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Tall Ships Races 2024 - Mariehamn to Szczecin

Welcome to the third of three virtual Tall Ships Races on the Baltic Sea which are concurrently being organized in-real-life by Sail Training International . This third race is from Mariehamn, Finland to Szczecin, Poland; circa 250nm in Sailonline’s stately fanciful Full Rigger.
NOTE: Starts and Finishes in tall ships racing are always offshore to avoid conflict with shipping and shipping lanes.
Race #1813
INFO by brainaid.de
Full Rigger PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: TS - SYC
Race starts: Jul 24th 14:00 Registration Open!

▶ Flash

GO TO RACE

Kalamata to Alanya 2024

For the beginning of the ARCH competition's third quarter, we will sail our boat, SOTO 40, from Kalamata, Greece over the Aegean Sea always eastward to the race finish, 520nm away, in Alanya, Turkey.
Race #1824
INFO from brainaid.de
SOTO 40 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
ARQ3 - ARCH - SUPSOL - SYC
Race starts: Jul 22nd 17:00 Registration Open!

▶ Flash

GO TO RACE

Kamchatsky to Tromsoe 2024

Just before the light failed entirely in Antarctica, Skip Novak managed to get his Pelagic 77 out of the ice and north up the Pacific to Kamchatsky. The sun is shining (24/7) and not a penguin to be seen, and Skip believes the Norh East Passage is ice-free (sufficiently) to attempt it, so all aboard for a c 4250nm voyage from east to west across the top of Siberia, Russia and Norway to Tromsoe!
Race #1779
INFOby brainaid.de
Pelagic 77 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: HLAT - SYC
Race starts: Jul 18th 19:00 Registration Closed

▶ Flash

GO TO RACE

Cowes to St Malo TIMED Race 2024

Organized by the Royal Ocean Racing Club since 1929, the Cowes to St Malo Race is a true RORC Classic. Starting from the Royal Yacht Squadron Line, Cowes, IOW, a magnificent spectacle can be watched from The Parade, Cowes. The Cowes to St Malo Race is part of the RORC Season’s Points Championship, the world’s largest offshore racing series. Dating back to 1906, the Cowes to St Malo Race precedes all of the world’s famous races including the Fastnet Race. This is a TIMEDrace, so you may RE-REGISTER HERE to try again, after finishing a run. You will have 13 days and 11 hours to show your skill and decision making after the race opens.
Race #1828
INFOby brainaid.de
TP-52 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
TRQ3 - TRCH - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
27 July at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Jul 14th 12:00 Registration Open!

▶ Flash

GO TO RACE

Southampton to Punta del Este 2024

Sailonline is delighted to offer our sailors a 'reversed' Atlantic ocean race. As the RTW championship Atlantic part takes a detour to the Bahamas, we will offer you a reversed course as we will not do the 'usual' leg this year either. It is the July edition of this year's Ocean Championship. Our boat is the OD_65v3.
PRIZE: SMPF
Race# 1820
INFO from brainaid.de
OD65 PARTICULARS
WX updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ3 - OCCH - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Wednesday,
July 31 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Jul 01st 11:00 Registration Closed

▶ Flash

GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client