Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » Practice Racing » Mark Boat Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion

Page: 1 2 3 4 Next

Posted by
RainbowChaser


Users avatar

Posts
2656
Registered at
2009-06-14 09:44:50
2011-03-21 09:37:05 - Mark Boat Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
First off, thank you to all who brought the Mark Rounding debate into the Forum
here.

The Forum is definitely the best place for such discussions as we can all plan what we say!

Second.. I would like to propose the following Rounding rules for the purposes of SOL Practice Racing:

1. Rounding a Mark is achieved when the track of a boat clearly passes the correct side of the central circle/mast of a Mark boat (when used) or clearly rounds an island.

2. Failure to round a Mark gives the skipper two choices (a) carry on racing but fall out of the rankings (b) undertake a penalty turn, of at least two course changes that are visible in the track, and remain included in rankings.



--- Last Edited by RainbowChaser at 2011-03-28 16:38:13 ---
Posted by
WhyNot


Users avatar

Posts
51
Registered at
2011-02-03 18:39:54
2011-03-21 12:00:30 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
I think that sounds fine, but should we specify a duration of "one fleet update" between the two course changes?
Posted by
Tazumaki


Users avatar

Posts
46
Registered at
2009-08-10 15:21:39
2011-03-21 18:18:03 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
Tom: your idea is not very practical as there is no way to measure how long one is on a specific course and you have one fleet update every minute, but three or four personal updates. So if you know when the fleetupdate is to come, you change your course on the last personal update before that and may change back on your next update while others have to go three updates in the wrong direction. After a Track update every change is visible, even if it last for only one personal update and it is not possible to do more than one change in a personal update.

I would propose to do a 360° by doing three course changes of about 120° in the same direction in a row as this is clearly visible in ones track after an update.

--- Last Edited by Tazumaki at 2011-03-21 18:19:27 ---

--- Last Edited by Tazumaki at 2011-03-21 18:20:33 ---
Posted by
WhyNot


Users avatar

Posts
51
Registered at
2011-02-03 18:39:54
2011-03-21 18:26:36 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
Taz, I think it is easy to see a fleetupdate. Just dont't watch your own boat.
I see the following scenario: You are going to make a penalty turn. You watch an other vessel. She or he jumps - you make your first turn. He or she jumps again - you make your second turn etc.

Or am I wrong?

Edit: I did some experimenting to day. I made several course changes in rapid succession - as fast as the system would allow. Set new course, click button - set new course ( while button text is grey) click when text turns black - and so on. It doesnot take very long to do. It is my feeling that the greatest penalty is the performance loss.
I think we need to formalize a duration.

Tom


--- Last Edited by Tom Nordahl at 2011-03-21 18:35:06 ---

--- Last Edited by Tom Nordahl at 2011-03-21 18:36:24 ---

--- Last Edited by Tom Nordahl at 2011-03-21 18:39:05 ---
Posted by
Tazumaki


Users avatar

Posts
46
Registered at
2009-08-10 15:21:39
2011-03-21 20:03:12 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
WhyNot said @ 2011-03-21 18:26:36:
Taz, I think it is easy to see a fleetupdate. Just dont't watch your own boat.
I see the following scenario: You are going to make a penalty turn. You watch an other vessel. She or he jumps - you make your first turn. He or she jumps again - you make your second turn etc.

Or am I wrong?

Edit: I did some experimenting to day. I made several course changes in rapid succession - as fast as the system would allow. Set new course, click button - set new course ( while button text is grey) click when text turns black - and so on. It doesnot take very long to do. It is my feeling that the greatest penalty is the performance loss.
I think we need to formalize a duration.
I dont think your wrong at all, but i don't know exactly if your hops (or your Timewindow for comands during a hop, to be precise) is really synchronised with the Fleet updates.
But more important: your proposal may be cheated as it is not to tell how long one actually sailed his altered course. if you turn just before the fleetupdate and imediatly after, it will look allmost the same to others as if you sailed your course for a whole minute.

I also have done these tests... each single comand is executed and you move one personal Hop in that direction. You can sea each comand after the trackupdate if you zoom in.
So my proposal is to do allmost the same as what you would do at the mark... go back to your track, continue your old course untill you pass the mark and go to your new course.
I only propose to do 120° three times as it is easier to see on the track.
The duration is allready formalized, as the personal hops are of equal length for everyone.

Posted by
newsartist


Users avatar

Posts
41
Registered at
2009-08-20 03:01:55
2011-03-21 20:27:31 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
I think the whole subject is more intensity than we need to get involved with,

After all, this is a fun race, not the America's Cup, (with lawyers.)

Rounding the Central Dot of a Mark, is fine. ...or rounding a designated island without grounding.

If an SLI is jumped, assume a high tide!
Posted by
newsartist


Users avatar

Posts
41
Registered at
2009-08-20 03:01:55
2011-03-21 20:35:00 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
If a Penalty is determined, I like the idea of the boat turning to the nearest Cardinal Direction to its present heading, then immediately on seeing the change, turning to the reciprocal of that, ...and then resuming racing.

That guarantees the max perf hit.

(...to be taken at any time before the Finish. Boats burdened by land may not be able to take it immediately.)

Anything else but a penalty at the sailor's choice of time, destroys a boat that is on DC.



--- Last Edited by newsartist at 2011-03-21 20:36:47 ---
Posted by
K3 (Bernd)


Users avatar

Posts
130
Registered at
2008-08-25 12:34:07
2011-03-21 21:36:52 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
10% of our fleet starts in the wrong direction (and I don't think of ±20°)
10% of our fleet don't knows the way to the first mark when it's not the finish line
10% of our boats are already abandoned when the 1st finishes

And now you want us to sail 120° triangles as reparation?
That's a big project!

ciao
Bernd
Posted by
RainbowChaser


Users avatar

Posts
2656
Registered at
2009-06-14 09:44:50
2011-03-21 22:45:38 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
K3- this is only for the short/informal practice races!! Not for the general SOL fleet at all :-)
Posted by
WhyNot


Users avatar

Posts
51
Registered at
2011-02-03 18:39:54
2011-03-21 22:59:14 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
Tazumaki said @ 2011-03-21 20:03:12:
But more important: your proposal may be cheated as it is not to tell how long one actually sailed his altered course. if you turn just before the fleetupdate and imediatly after, it will look allmost the same to others as if you sailed your course for a whole minute.
And therefore I think your 3x120 is a good idea.

I also have done these tests... each single comand is executed and you move one personal Hop in that direction. You can sea each comand after the trackupdate if you zoom in.


As to personal or fleet hop, I think the personal hop is to short a time.

Tom

Page: 1 2 3 4 Next

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Africa by Sea - Swakopmund to Maputo 2025


Time again to continue our exploration of Africa by Sea, which now takes us around the tip of the continent at Cape Agulhas and up the coast of South Africa to Mozambique’s marvellous Maputo, where we should find good anchorage in the bend of the Rio Espirito Santo (Umbuluzi) once we’ve cleared the 60m high Maputo - Katembe suspension bridge. It’s 1900nm and we’ll be glad to be sailing our comfortable and sturdy Xp-55, as we will certainly experience more headwinds!
Race #1857
INFOby brainaid.de
Xp-55 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC - ABC
Race starts: Jun 11th 17:00 Registration will open soon
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Isle of Wight RTI Sprint 2025


Welcome to the Isle of Wight in the British Isles. A past home to Queen Victoria and the foundation of the America's Cup when yacht racing became popular in the 1800's. This particular race was last raced on SOL in 2012 to follow Soler JuJu sailing around the island. We return, long overdue, to race our final Q2 sprint around the island.
Race 1918
INFO by brainaid.de
Ker 40 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
SPRQ2 - SPRCH - SUPSOL – SYC
Race starts: Jun 07th 09:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Marquesas to Young Island 2025

The adventure continues as we launch this fourth leg of the RWW series, racing from Marquesas to Young Island in the Balleny Islands, a group of islands in the Southern Ocean only 62 nm from Antarctica. Get ready for a chilling new challenge as we set sail on the sixth leg of the 2025 Ocean Championship Series! A 4100nm journey of endurance, strategy, and pure sailing excitement. This leg will be pursued aboard the race machine RP66, pushing sailors to their limits. Do you have what it takes to conquer the Southern Ocean? Join us and put your skills to the ultimate test!
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1909
INFO by brainaid.de
Raichel/Pugh 66 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ2 - RWW - OCCH - SUPSOL - SYC
Race starts: Jun 02nd 11:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

TuziTekwini TIMED Race 2025

Sailonline is delighted to have been invited to partner with the King Shaka Yacht Club (KSYC) of South Africa to bring a virtual version of the Tuzi Tekwini Ocean Raceto our online community.
The Tuzi Tekwini Ocean Race is a near 90 nautical mile race down the east coast of South Africa from the port of Richards Bay to the port of Durban. Achievable in a single day and seen by some as an easy mile-builder, the course is more tactical than some think and should not be underestimated. This iconic race promises to be an unforgettable experience for yachting enthusiasts.
Our online version of the race will be a TIMEDrace so you may RE-REGISTER HEREto try again after finishing a run. You will have 13 days and 11 hours to test your skill and decision making after the race opens.
Race #1916
INFOby brainaid.de
Sailonline’s virtual yacht for all your runs will be our much-loved Farr 38 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
TRQ2 - TRCH - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
14 June at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Jun 01st 12:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

SoCal 300 2025


With this year's California Offshore Race Week already well under way, here now is your chance to participate virtually in SDYC's challenging 243nm (as the seagull flies) SoCal 300 from Santa Barbara to San Diego. With a wide and wild range of boats entered for the real race, whose progress we hope we will be able to follow on our own chart by linking to the YB tracker, virtual SOLers will have to dig deep to remain competitive in our trusty Santa Cruz 52s.
Race #1919
INFO by brainaid.de
Santa Cruz 52 PARTICULARS
NAM_AWIP WX Updates:
0245 / 0845 / 1445 / 2045
Ranking: SYC
RACE CLOSE: Sunday,
June 8 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: May 29th 20:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member FreyjaUSA
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Patrick70119
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Kipper1258
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rumskib
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Smo
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client