Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » Practice Racing » Mark Boat Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion

Page: 1 2 3 4 Next

Posted by
RainbowChaser


Users avatar

Posts
2656
Registered at
2009-06-14 09:44:50
2011-03-21 09:37:05 - Mark Boat Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
First off, thank you to all who brought the Mark Rounding debate into the Forum
here.

The Forum is definitely the best place for such discussions as we can all plan what we say!

Second.. I would like to propose the following Rounding rules for the purposes of SOL Practice Racing:

1. Rounding a Mark is achieved when the track of a boat clearly passes the correct side of the central circle/mast of a Mark boat (when used) or clearly rounds an island.

2. Failure to round a Mark gives the skipper two choices (a) carry on racing but fall out of the rankings (b) undertake a penalty turn, of at least two course changes that are visible in the track, and remain included in rankings.



--- Last Edited by RainbowChaser at 2011-03-28 16:38:13 ---
Posted by
WhyNot


Users avatar

Posts
51
Registered at
2011-02-03 18:39:54
2011-03-21 12:00:30 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
I think that sounds fine, but should we specify a duration of "one fleet update" between the two course changes?
Posted by
Tazumaki


Users avatar

Posts
46
Registered at
2009-08-10 15:21:39
2011-03-21 18:18:03 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
Tom: your idea is not very practical as there is no way to measure how long one is on a specific course and you have one fleet update every minute, but three or four personal updates. So if you know when the fleetupdate is to come, you change your course on the last personal update before that and may change back on your next update while others have to go three updates in the wrong direction. After a Track update every change is visible, even if it last for only one personal update and it is not possible to do more than one change in a personal update.

I would propose to do a 360° by doing three course changes of about 120° in the same direction in a row as this is clearly visible in ones track after an update.

--- Last Edited by Tazumaki at 2011-03-21 18:19:27 ---

--- Last Edited by Tazumaki at 2011-03-21 18:20:33 ---
Posted by
WhyNot


Users avatar

Posts
51
Registered at
2011-02-03 18:39:54
2011-03-21 18:26:36 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
Taz, I think it is easy to see a fleetupdate. Just dont't watch your own boat.
I see the following scenario: You are going to make a penalty turn. You watch an other vessel. She or he jumps - you make your first turn. He or she jumps again - you make your second turn etc.

Or am I wrong?

Edit: I did some experimenting to day. I made several course changes in rapid succession - as fast as the system would allow. Set new course, click button - set new course ( while button text is grey) click when text turns black - and so on. It doesnot take very long to do. It is my feeling that the greatest penalty is the performance loss.
I think we need to formalize a duration.

Tom


--- Last Edited by Tom Nordahl at 2011-03-21 18:35:06 ---

--- Last Edited by Tom Nordahl at 2011-03-21 18:36:24 ---

--- Last Edited by Tom Nordahl at 2011-03-21 18:39:05 ---
Posted by
Tazumaki


Users avatar

Posts
46
Registered at
2009-08-10 15:21:39
2011-03-21 20:03:12 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
WhyNot said @ 2011-03-21 18:26:36:
Taz, I think it is easy to see a fleetupdate. Just dont't watch your own boat.
I see the following scenario: You are going to make a penalty turn. You watch an other vessel. She or he jumps - you make your first turn. He or she jumps again - you make your second turn etc.

Or am I wrong?

Edit: I did some experimenting to day. I made several course changes in rapid succession - as fast as the system would allow. Set new course, click button - set new course ( while button text is grey) click when text turns black - and so on. It doesnot take very long to do. It is my feeling that the greatest penalty is the performance loss.
I think we need to formalize a duration.
I dont think your wrong at all, but i don't know exactly if your hops (or your Timewindow for comands during a hop, to be precise) is really synchronised with the Fleet updates.
But more important: your proposal may be cheated as it is not to tell how long one actually sailed his altered course. if you turn just before the fleetupdate and imediatly after, it will look allmost the same to others as if you sailed your course for a whole minute.

I also have done these tests... each single comand is executed and you move one personal Hop in that direction. You can sea each comand after the trackupdate if you zoom in.
So my proposal is to do allmost the same as what you would do at the mark... go back to your track, continue your old course untill you pass the mark and go to your new course.
I only propose to do 120° three times as it is easier to see on the track.
The duration is allready formalized, as the personal hops are of equal length for everyone.

Posted by
newsartist


Users avatar

Posts
41
Registered at
2009-08-20 03:01:55
2011-03-21 20:27:31 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
I think the whole subject is more intensity than we need to get involved with,

After all, this is a fun race, not the America's Cup, (with lawyers.)

Rounding the Central Dot of a Mark, is fine. ...or rounding a designated island without grounding.

If an SLI is jumped, assume a high tide!
Posted by
newsartist


Users avatar

Posts
41
Registered at
2009-08-20 03:01:55
2011-03-21 20:35:00 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
If a Penalty is determined, I like the idea of the boat turning to the nearest Cardinal Direction to its present heading, then immediately on seeing the change, turning to the reciprocal of that, ...and then resuming racing.

That guarantees the max perf hit.

(...to be taken at any time before the Finish. Boats burdened by land may not be able to take it immediately.)

Anything else but a penalty at the sailor's choice of time, destroys a boat that is on DC.



--- Last Edited by newsartist at 2011-03-21 20:36:47 ---
Posted by
K3 (Bernd)


Users avatar

Posts
130
Registered at
2008-08-25 12:34:07
2011-03-21 21:36:52 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
10% of our fleet starts in the wrong direction (and I don't think of ±20°)
10% of our fleet don't knows the way to the first mark when it's not the finish line
10% of our boats are already abandoned when the 1st finishes

And now you want us to sail 120° triangles as reparation?
That's a big project!

ciao
Bernd
Posted by
RainbowChaser


Users avatar

Posts
2656
Registered at
2009-06-14 09:44:50
2011-03-21 22:45:38 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
K3- this is only for the short/informal practice races!! Not for the general SOL fleet at all :-)
Posted by
WhyNot


Users avatar

Posts
51
Registered at
2011-02-03 18:39:54
2011-03-21 22:59:14 - Re: Mark Rounding Rules - Proposal for discussion
Tazumaki said @ 2011-03-21 20:03:12:
But more important: your proposal may be cheated as it is not to tell how long one actually sailed his altered course. if you turn just before the fleetupdate and imediatly after, it will look allmost the same to others as if you sailed your course for a whole minute.
And therefore I think your 3x120 is a good idea.

I also have done these tests... each single comand is executed and you move one personal Hop in that direction. You can sea each comand after the trackupdate if you zoom in.


As to personal or fleet hop, I think the personal hop is to short a time.

Tom

Page: 1 2 3 4 Next

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Lake Ontario 300 Challenge 2026

Lake Ontario Offshore Racing (LOOR) welcomes Sailonline sailors to a second virtual version of a race in their annual series, and for the sixth year in succession the LO300. As the name implies, the LO300 is a 300nm offshore race across the length and breadth of Lake Ontario, from and back to Port Credit YC. This year, for the first time, we will be racing the 300nm circuit in Sun Fast 3200s. As usual, there is an overall prize for the SOLer who best bosses Lake Ontario over the two races hosted by Sailonline, this LO300 and the Susan Hood raced back in May, and this year also the race and the Susan Hood count towards the title of Super Buddy 2026; so, let the competition be fierce!
Race #2044
INFOby brainaid.de
Sun Fast 3200 PARTICULARS
NAM_AWIP WX Updates:
0245 / 0845 / 1445 / 2045
Ranking: LOOR - SUPBUD - SYC
Race starts: Jul 11th 15:10 Registration Open!

▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Tall Ships 2026 - Harlingen to Antwerpen


Welcome to the second of four virtual Tall Ships Races in European waters which are concurrently being organized in-real-life by Sail Training International . This second race is from Harlingen in Friesland down along the coast of Holland and Friesland to Vlaanderen’s famous port of Antwerpen – circa 150nm in Sailonline’s classic Clipper 240.
NOTE: Starts and Finishes in tall ships racing are always offshore to avoid conflict with shipping and shipping lanes; online and real-life may not match exactly.
Race #1993
INFO by brainaid.de
Clipper 240 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: TSI - SUPBUD - SYC
Race starts: Jul 06th 16:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Alaska to Easter Island 2026

Welcome to yet another all-new series. The initial leg of the RNW (Round the New World), Alaska to Easter Island, also part of our Ocean Championship. The first race of OCQ3 2026. This race will be sailed in our revised 'version 2' Imoca 60 Foil. Race #2042
INFO by brainaid.de
Imoca 60 Foil v2 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ3 - RNW - OCCH - SYC
Race starts: Jul 06th 11:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Cross the Convergence 2026 - Sao Tomé to Tristan

The fifth race of our series of ocean voyages across the World’s convergence zones takes us back south down the Atlantic from Sao Tomé on the Equator to Tristan da Cunha on the edge of the Roaring Forties. It’s 2500nm; in your path the Benguela winds and current along the south west African coast, and behind that the St Helena High stretching halfway to South America. So, mind where you go in your Volvo OD65 version 3 (based on sampled real-life race data by kroppyer)!
Race #1985
INFOby brainaid.de
Volvo OD65v3 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: CCZ - SYC
Race starts: Jul 03rd 18:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

New Ice Age 2026 - Neumayer Station to Scott Base


For a second-half of long-distance ice-boating, we take our DNs to Antarctica for a circumnavigation of that continent in two legs clockwise, in harmony with the prevailing winds (such as there are), beginning with a race from Germany’s Neumayer Station to New Zealand’s Scott Base. It’s about 3500nm, which, if there’s wind at all, should, well-wrapped in your DN-cockpits, not take you much more than five days. And remember: charts down here are unreliable – what is land and what is ice?!
Race #1970
INFOby brainaid.de
DN PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: NIA - SYC
Race starts: Jul 02nd 07:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Panpyc
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member cdhinman
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member ms0689
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member YANN
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member HoratioPugwash

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client