Sailonline.org - Online Sailing

Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Tweets by @sailonline

Board » General Discussion » Mark Rounding San Juan

Posted by victory Posts 36 Registered at 2009-04-18 11:37:25	2010-03-17 07:28:57 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
	AS far as I am aware the rules IRL also allow you to cross the finish line from any direction Except in match racing! Rule 28.1...A boat shall start,leave each mark on the required side in the correct order and finish!! Pete
Posted by Incognito Posts 183 Registered at 2008-12-06 13:43:52	2010-03-21 18:10:51 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
	First, congratulations to Jakob and Kalle for aligning SOL's mark rounding rules with real life ones. I did not hesitate to use the old rules as they were. However, I did not like them because they created a lot of confusion. The race committee has also discussed the existing possibility of crossing the finish line in the wrong direction. In real races, crossing the line in the wrong direction is not accepted. However, the race committee suggests to leave things as they are. 1. The race design should normally ensure that passing the line in the wrong direction does not provide an advantage. 2. As a result, those who pass the finish line in the wrong direction usually do so because they have missed it in the first place. They have thus already been penalized. The race committee has decided to acknowledge that there are differences between real and virtual racing. In real racing, it does not happen frequently that the finish line is crossed while no watch is being held, unlike in virtual racing. For the race committee, Incognito
Posted by A2 Posts 347 Registered at 2009-10-26 00:39:42	2010-03-21 18:41:46 - Re: Finish Line
	I was not in the San Juan race to witness what transpired there but if an interim rounding could raise such a ruckus, then a finish line controversy, where a final placement would clearly be at stake has the potential to be more explosive. I feel the standard that should be adopted is the one that reflects the way this matter is handled in high profile regattas such as the America's & Louis Vuitton Cups, and the like. I do not find the example where a boat just misses the end of the line and must return to it, to be persuasive in concluding that "no advantage" exists under the current state of the rule. Rather, as Sailors, please tell me, Do Lay lines matter ? If a boat has overstood the lay line or a wind shift has caused a boat to find itself beyond said line, should not that boat have to lose ground to return to the center of the course at some point? This situation can occur at a distance from the eventual finish line. If a skipper has the option of waiting until after passing the finish line extended to make this correction, the wind condition on the line may be at odds with what may have existed earlier up the course This then would present two unequal choices and offer in some cases an actual unfair edge. This is the appropriate test. Waiting for this to become an Issue only invites enmity between SOLers who had previously been friendly with each other. Avoiding hard feelings is my aim in this position --- Last Edited by Aethereal at 2010-03-21 22:03:01 --- None so blind
Posted by Hirilondë Posts 48 Registered at 2010-02-22 12:50:31	2010-03-21 18:44:36 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
	I don't see or have any issues with the recommendations of the race committee. I have tried to envision a situation where under certain wind conditions crossing backwards would be a quicker means to finish than the intended route of the course. So far the only one I can come up with would be a finish line on the back side of an island similar to the way point on the backside of the island in the San Juan race. But assuming that the course is set up in such a manner to remove that scenario I don't see it being an issue. An additional way-point could always be added if necessary to make the back door finish totally undesirable except for the missed finish scenario Incognito mentions in his post. Thanks for sharing the thoughts and recommendation of the Race Committee. edit: Hmmm, I must have been writing at the same time as Aethereal. I don't know the odds of such a thing as he describes happening, but it is certainly worthy of consideration. Is there any reason for a backwards finish great enough to risk such a thing? It is really a shame that someone doing well might be distracted by an IRL situation and miss the finish. But we all face that possibility. --- Last Edited by Hirilondë at 2010-03-21 18:54:07 ---
Posted by StuArt Posts 118 Registered at 2008-11-15 22:03:54	2010-03-22 01:03:59 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
	USA Aether A2 said @ 2010-03-21 18:41:46: II feel the standard that should be adopted is the one that reflects the way this matter is handled in high profile regattas such as the America's & Louis Vuitton Cups, and the like. --- Last Edited by Aethereal at 2010-03-21 22:03:01 --- America's Cup and Louis Vitton Cup Finals are Match Race events - Rule C 2.1. is active: just one direction. SOL is fleet racing. The committee can decide the cases. regards Berth
Posted by A2 Posts 347 Registered at 2009-10-26 00:39:42	2010-03-22 02:27:14 - Re: Finish Line
	StuArt - Thank you I agree that undeniably this is indeed a fleet race circumstance, My limited acquaintance with Sailing experience and terminology is painfully obvious. Perhaps the Volvo Ocean Race would be a better high profile exemplar. --- Last Edited by Aethereal at 2010-03-22 15:43:34 --- None so blind
Posted by Capt.D.P. Posts 66 Registered at 2009-10-27 01:51:32	2010-03-22 10:31:16 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
	hey VICTORY I would not say that IRL you could cross the finish line from opposite direction and complete the race except if it is not strictly in the instruction to cross from other side. In fact you could cross it from opposite direction but than recross it back in right direction.The instruction gives you the arrival between two points and by crossing from behind you have not passed between those points in right direction so you must do it by recrossing the line otherwise you have not arrived
Posted by Capt.D.P. Posts 66 Registered at 2009-10-27 01:51:32	2010-03-22 10:45:39 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
	hey INCO don't you think that a genoa you have on that boat of yours is to big for that wind. It is quite deforming yr main.If that is the only genoa you have than you should have opened it more or if you wanted better angle tight the forsail at max. and tight at max. for part of genoa in order to have genoa as flat as possible aft
Posted by StuArt Posts 118 Registered at 2008-11-15 22:03:54	2010-03-22 13:16:48 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
	totally OT: @Aether: it isn't in your responsibility that the ol' guys from the famous ISAF November meeting are not able to make rules clear, understandable and without playgrounds for cheater and solicitors. Probably its in the nature of the game, I don't know. When I see the changes they made for 2009 - 2011 I am again puzzled: loads of changings about wording - very few about simplify the cases. We are talking about ISAF rules (formerly aka IYRU) that rule all sorts of sailing worldwide: dinghysailing as well as windsurfing, offhore races and even RC boat racing (sorry about that Rainbow Chaser ) America's Cup, Louis Vitton or Volvo Ocean have created their own stuff next to the ISAF rules. And many other organisations as well. So we have to face thousands of pages ruling sailing IRL. We just have to decide, what we are picking out to keep the game as IRL as possible IMHO regards Stu
Posted by A2 Posts 347 Registered at 2009-10-26 00:39:42	2010-03-22 16:20:52 - Re: Finish Line
	Upon further reflection: With all the races so far conducted here at SOL, if there was the possibility for any complaint to arise over the finish line configuration as it exists, it certainly would have happened by now. My rudimentary understanding of strategy & tactics as it applies to these events must be lacking sufficient insight to carry this matter any further, Whether or not my hypothetical stratagem has any merit. None so blind

Page: Previous 1 2 3 Next

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Kapiti Chetwodes Race 2024

For only the second time in SOL history, we have the pleasure of inviting you to the Kapiti Chetwodes Race, held in the Cook Strait region. Organised IRL by the Royal Port Nicholson Yacht Club from Wellington in New Zealand. The approximately 160nm long route, full of turning points, will take us from the bay at RPNYC around the islands of Somes, Kapiti and Chetwodes and back to the finish line at RPNYC. We have only a 26 ft Albin 79 yacht at our disposal. All this means that we will have a lot of fun, so fair winds!
Race #1864
INFO by brainaid.de
Albin 79 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
ARQ4 - ARCH - SUPSOL - SYC
Race starts: Nov 25th 17:00 Registration Open!

▶ Flash

GO TO RACE

Raja Muda Selangor 2024 - Penang to Langkawi

Welcome to the third and last online race of the Raja Muda Selangor International offshore series – a 70nm final trip further north again up the Malacca Strait from Penang to the exotic island of Langkawi, and again in Ker 40s.
Race #1871
INFO by brainaid.de
Ker 40 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: RMS - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Monday,
November 25 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Nov 21st 04:00 Registration Open!

▶ Flash

GO TO RACE

Raja Muda Selangor 2024 - Pangkor to Penang

Welcome to our second online offshore race in cooperation with Raja Muda Selangor International – an 80nm trip from Pangkor north to Penang up the Malacca Strait, again in Ker 40s.
Race #1870
INFO by brainaid.de
Ker 40 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: RMS - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
November 23 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Nov 18th 04:00 Registration Open!

▶ Flash

GO TO RACE

Two Oceans Doublecross TIMED Race 2024

Our November Timed race takes us to Cape Town near where the Atlantic and Indian oceans meet. Our ride is a beautiful ketch, the Archer 78. Starting at Cape Town, we’ll round Robben Island, then head south to round Cape Point, up around Seal Island before heading north to round Dassen Island before returning to Cape Town. This is a TIMED race, so you may RE-REGISTER HERE to try again, after finishing a run. You will have 13 days and 11 hours to test your skill and decision making after the race opens.
Race #1872
INFO by brainaid.de
Archer 78 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
TRQ4 - TRCH - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
30 November at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Nov 17th 12:00 Registration Open!

▶ Flash

GO TO RACE

Nassau to Bodo 2024

Prepare for the grand finale - the 6th and concluding leg of the RTW challenge, an odyssey from Nassau in the Caribbean to Bodø in Norway. Embracing a journey of 4000 nautical miles, this leg promises an exhilarating 18-day voyage. It also heralds the November installment of our prestigious Ocean Race Championship. Embark on a voyage of a lifetime, where prowess, tactics, and camaraderie unite in the pursuit of triumph. We eagerly await your presence at the starting line! May the winds be ever in your favor.
PRIZE: SMPF
Race# 1866
INFO from brainaid.de
Swan 65 PARTICULARS
WX updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ4 - OCCH - RTW - SUPSOL - SYC
Race starts: Nov 11th 11:00 Registration Closed

▶ Flash

GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client