Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » General Discussion » Mark Rounding San Juan

Page: Previous 1 2 3 Next

Posted by
victory


Users avatar

Posts
36
Registered at
2009-04-18 11:37:25
2010-03-17 07:28:57 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
AS far as I am aware the rules IRL also allow you to cross the finish line from any direction Except in match racing!

Rule 28.1...A boat shall start,leave each mark on the required side in the correct order and finish!!

Pete
Posted by
Incognito


Users avatar

Posts
183
Registered at
2008-12-06 13:43:52
2010-03-21 18:10:51 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
First, congratulations to Jakob and Kalle for aligning SOL's mark rounding rules with real life ones.

I did not hesitate to use the old rules as they were. However, I did not like them because they created a lot of confusion.

The race committee has also discussed the existing possibility of crossing the finish line in the wrong direction.

In real races, crossing the line in the wrong direction is not accepted. However, the race committee suggests to leave things as they are.

1. The race design should normally ensure that passing the line in the wrong direction does not provide an advantage.

2. As a result, those who pass the finish line in the wrong direction usually do so because they have missed it in the first place. They have thus already been penalized.

The race committee has decided to acknowledge that there are differences between real and virtual racing. In real racing, it does not happen frequently that the finish line is crossed while no watch is being held, unlike in virtual racing. ;)

For the race committee,

Incognito
Posted by
A2


Users avatar

Posts
347
Registered at
2009-10-26 00:39:42
2010-03-21 18:41:46 - Re: Finish Line
I was not in the San Juan race to witness
what transpired there but if an interim
rounding could raise such a ruckus,
then a finish line controversy, where a
final placement would clearly be at stake
has the potential to be more explosive.

I feel the standard that should be
adopted is the one that reflects the
way this matter is handled in high
profile regattas such as the America's
& Louis Vuitton Cups, and the like.

I do not find the example where a boat
just misses the end of the line and must
return to it, to be persuasive in
concluding that "no advantage" exists
under the current state of the rule.

Rather, as Sailors, please tell me,
Do Lay lines matter ?

If a boat has overstood the lay line or
a wind shift has caused a boat to find
itself beyond said line, should not that
boat have to lose ground to return to
the center of the course at some point?

This situation can occur at a distance
from the eventual finish line.

If a skipper has the option of waiting
until after passing the finish line
extended to make this correction,
the wind condition on the line may be
at odds with what may have existed
earlier up the course

This then would present two unequal
choices and offer in some cases an
actual unfair edge.

This is the appropriate test.

Waiting for this to become an Issue
only invites enmity between SOLers
who had previously been friendly
with each other.

Avoiding hard feelings
is my aim in this position

--- Last Edited by Aethereal at 2010-03-21 22:03:01 ---
None so blind
Posted by
Hirilondë


Users avatar

Posts
48
Registered at
2010-02-22 12:50:31
2010-03-21 18:44:36 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
I don't see or have any issues with the recommendations of the race committee. I have tried to envision a situation where under certain wind conditions crossing backwards would be a quicker means to finish than the intended route of the course. So far the only one I can come up with would be a finish line on the back side of an island similar to the way point on the backside of the island in the San Juan race. But assuming that the course is set up in such a manner to remove that scenario I don't see it being an issue. An additional way-point could always be added if necessary to make the back door finish totally undesirable except for the missed finish scenario Incognito mentions in his post.

Thanks for sharing the thoughts and recommendation of the Race Committee.

edit:
Hmmm, I must have been writing at the same time as Aethereal. I don't know the odds of such a thing as he describes happening, but it is certainly worthy of consideration. Is there any reason for a backwards finish great enough to risk such a thing? It is really a shame that someone doing well might be distracted by an IRL situation and miss the finish. But we all face that possibility.

--- Last Edited by Hirilondë at 2010-03-21 18:54:07 ---
Posted by
StuArt


Users avatar

Posts
118
Registered at
2008-11-15 22:03:54
2010-03-22 01:03:59 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
USA Aether A2 said @ 2010-03-21 18:41:46:
II feel the standard that should be
adopted is the one that reflects the
way this matter is handled in high
profile regattas such as the America's
& Louis Vuitton Cups, and the like.
--- Last Edited by Aethereal at 2010-03-21 22:03:01 ---
America's Cup and Louis Vitton Cup Finals are Match Race events - Rule C 2.1. is active: just one direction.
SOL is fleet racing. The committee can decide the cases.

regards

Berth
Posted by
A2


Users avatar

Posts
347
Registered at
2009-10-26 00:39:42
2010-03-22 02:27:14 - Re: Finish Line
StuArt -

Thank you

I agree that undeniably this is indeed a fleet race circumstance,

My limited acquaintance with Sailing experience and terminology is painfully obvious.

Perhaps the Volvo Ocean Race would be a better high profile exemplar.

--- Last Edited by Aethereal at 2010-03-22 15:43:34 ---
None so blind
Posted by
Capt.D.P.


Users avatar

Posts
66
Registered at
2009-10-27 01:51:32
2010-03-22 10:31:16 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
hey VICTORY I would not say that IRL you could cross the finish line from opposite direction and complete the race except if it is not strictly in the instruction to cross from other side.
In fact you could cross it from opposite direction but than recross it back in right direction.The instruction gives you the arrival between two points and by crossing from behind you have not passed between those points in right direction so you must do it by recrossing the line otherwise you have not arrived
Posted by
Capt.D.P.


Users avatar

Posts
66
Registered at
2009-10-27 01:51:32
2010-03-22 10:45:39 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
hey INCO don't you think that a genoa you have on that boat of yours is to big for that wind.
It is quite deforming yr main.If that is the only genoa you have than you should have opened it more or if you wanted better angle tight the forsail at max. and tight at max. for part of genoa in order to have genoa as flat as possible aft
Posted by
StuArt


Users avatar

Posts
118
Registered at
2008-11-15 22:03:54
2010-03-22 13:16:48 - Re: Mark Rounding San Juan
totally OT:

@Aether: it isn't in your responsibility that the ol' guys from the famous ISAF November meeting are not able to make rules clear, understandable and without playgrounds for cheater and solicitors. Probably its in the nature of the game, I don't know. When I see the changes they made for 2009 - 2011 I am again puzzled: loads of changings about wording - very few about simplify the cases. :-/

We are talking about ISAF rules (formerly aka IYRU) that rule all sorts of sailing worldwide: dinghysailing as well as windsurfing, offhore races and even RC boat racing (sorry about that Rainbow Chaser ;-) )

America's Cup, Louis Vitton or Volvo Ocean have created their own stuff next to the ISAF rules. And many other organisations as well. So we have to face thousands of pages ruling sailing IRL.

We just have to decide, what we are picking out to keep the game as IRL as possible IMHO :)

regards

Stu
Posted by
A2


Users avatar

Posts
347
Registered at
2009-10-26 00:39:42
2010-03-22 16:20:52 - Re: Finish Line
Upon further reflection:

With all the races so far conducted here at SOL, if there was the possibility for any complaint to arise over the finish line configuration as it exists, it certainly would have happened by now.

My rudimentary understanding of strategy & tactics as it applies to these events must be lacking sufficient insight to carry this matter any further,

Whether or not my hypothetical stratagem has any merit.
None so blind

Page: Previous 1 2 3 Next

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Aeolian Cruise 2025


This is the final race of the ARCH 2025 series and your last chance to improve your ranking. It promises to be an exciting 210nm slalom through the beautiful landscapes of the Aeolian Islands. Our Moody S38's will take off from Tropea and sail west between successive islands to reach the finish line in the Gulf of Palermo.
Fair Winds.
Race #1991
INFO from brainaid.de
Moody S38 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
ARQ4 - ARCH - SUPSOL - SYC
Race starts: Dec 15th 17:00 Registration will open soon
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Chatham Island TIMED Chase 2025

The final TIMED race of 2025 takes us to the isolated and mysterious Chatham Islands archipelago 430 nm east of New Zealand’s South Island. There promises to be plenty of breeze from every point on the compass as we sail the Farr 38 around Chatham Island, Pitt Island, and The Forty Fours on this 124 nm course. This is a TIMEDrace so you may RE-REGISTER HEREto try again after finishing a run. You will have 13 days and 11 hours to test your skill and decision making after the race opens.
Race #1990
INFOby brainaid.de
Farr 38 Particulars
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
TRQ4 - TRCH - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
27 December at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Dec 14th 12:00 Registration will open soon
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Great Bear Ice Race 2025


You can fly to Great Bear Lake Airport, but if the ice is good, instead hire a pick-up truck, load your disassembled DN into the cargo bed and drive, first following the McKenzie River north, and then straight across the lake to the start of our final Ice Boat series race of roughly 100nm in length. The Airport authorities have agreed to leave all lights on, so you should just about be able to see where you are going as you zing and rumble, PL-free over the ice!
Race #1853
INFOby brainaid.de
DN PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: DN - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Friday,
December 12 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Dec 07th 09:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Chile Islands RTI Sprint 2025


Across the Canal Puyuhuapi from Puerto Cines on the Chilean mainland lies the Parque Nacional Isla Magdelena, and further west across the Canal Moraleda from Magdelena lie the islands of the Chonos Archipelago. Returning for the first time since 2017 we find ourselves in vari-charted waters here, with the mapping between physical islands and their names not 1:1 but rather some:some. It’s only 26nm but you could get lost! Good luck.
Race 1980
INFO by brainaid.de
First 40 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
SPQ4 - SPRCH - SUPSOL – SYC
RACE CLOSE: Thursday,
December 11 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Dec 06th 21:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Christmas to Christmas Island 2025

Two waypoints, start and finish, and between them 5827 NM of two oceans. Not much time if we want to sit at the Christmas Eve table. You will need to maintain an average speed of over 10 knots, maybe quite possible with this Maxi Trimaran, but prepare your vessel well and choose the best of the many possible routes. Hands up everyone who knew there were TWO Christmas Islands?! OK, maybe you have sailed this Sailonline course before... but it's time to get ready for the 2025 challenge of racing between Christmas Island in the Pacific to Christmas Island in the Indian Ocean! It also marks the conclusion of our prestigious Ocean Race Championship 2025. Please have fun! Fair winds!
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1967
INFO by brainaid.de
Maxi Trimaran PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ4 - OCCH - SUPSOL - SYC
Race starts: Dec 01st 11:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member vida
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CollegeFund
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Panpyc
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member sassy63
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member BRENTGRAY

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client