Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » Technical Discussion » Performance loss

Page: First Previous 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next Last

Posted by
javakeda


Users avatar

Posts
73
Registered at
2013-03-01 03:18:22
2013-10-16 00:41:56 - Re: Performance loss
A2R: So your research is one more example of the value of "lmgtfy.com".

hehe
Posted by
Go4iT


Users avatar

Posts
130
Registered at
2011-03-14 23:58:15
2013-10-18 22:56:54 - Re: Performance loss
Tx A2R
Posted by
Klyvarn


Users avatar

Posts
7
Registered at
2011-01-09 21:21:29
2013-12-19 17:18:44 - Re: Performance loss
If anyone creates an acceptable solution to improve existing performance, will the SOL engine be updated with that piece of code ?

After reading some of Kroppyer's posts, it seems that we have to make the best of the performance-calculation, just as it is today and update the SOL Client Manual with a lot of tips and tricks.
Posted by
kroppyer


Users avatar

Posts
347
Registered at
2010-02-05 15:25:55
2013-12-19 19:38:27 - Re: Performance loss
I can't answer your question regarding a possible update in the performance model. If there are any plans to change the performance model, I would like to offer to help.

As for the guide/manual, there could be a discussion about what should and shouldn't be in the manual, but for now I'd say the manual is there to explain how the game+client works. I think all knowledge about how the game works and most (if not all) of how the client works, should be in the manual.

So, it might be good to explain the performance model in the manual. Problem with this is that it might be very (too) technical.

BUT, explaining how to use the knowledge of how the game works to your advantage should not be part of this manual [My opinion]
This topic is far to extensive, there are complete books written on how to route across the oceans. Of course the performance model is very SOL-specific, and how to use it to your advantage is (as far as I'm aware) not discussed anywhere else than on this forum thread. But that doesn't change my opinion that it's not up to SOL to tell us how we can be faster.

So, explaining the performance model in the manual: yes [my opinion], tips and tricks in the manual: no [my opinion]

I am happy to help in an attempt to explain the performance model in a simple way, without too much maths.

--- Last Edited by kroppyer at 2013-12-19 19:40:47 ---
Posted by
Klyvarn


Users avatar

Posts
7
Registered at
2011-01-09 21:21:29
2013-12-19 20:53:14 - Re: Performance loss
Kroppyer

I agree with you that the performance model should be explained in the SOL Manual, not how to use the model.

I'm more concerned of the future SOL virtual sailing program. Have the SOL engine creators made any promises to Sailonline NavSim AB, that they will perform improvement or is it up to SOLers with programming skills to create needed code.

Sorry, SOL is just a game we are playing.
I have to play SOL a lot, hopefully I'll get some skills. Excel is helping me with VMG-calculations.
Posted by
Rod


Users avatar

Posts
392
Registered at
2010-06-24 22:30:48
2013-12-19 23:07:10 - Re: Performance loss
May I suggest a graphical model for the method of dealing with perf loss, as it would be more rapid to use, and much easier for some of us "less numerate" SOLers.
I have drawn up two suggested graphical layouts, with FICTITIOUS lines, which might be used as a model for such graphs. Unfortunately the "server" does not seem to like them, so I am sending them to RainbowChaser, whose e-mail I know and requesting her to forward them to Kroppyer for his inspection.
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
kroppyer


Users avatar

Posts
347
Registered at
2010-02-05 15:25:55
2013-12-19 23:16:46 - Re: Performance loss
Rod, you can mail me at (info (nospam) kroppyer.nl)

spinnacer will include a graphical way of showing performance loss. Attached two previews. Might take a while before it's finished.

this one has a cyan line indicating the performance loss when turning from the angle indicated with the gray line, the cyan circle is the 93% line. (It's still a work in progress)


--- Last Edited by kroppyer at 2013-12-19 23:21:13 ---
Attachments
Posted by
Rod


Users avatar

Posts
392
Registered at
2010-06-24 22:30:48
2013-12-19 23:50:20 - Re: Performance loss
I have sent you my suggested graphical layouts. I would suggest that consideration be given to the idea that the PRINTED GRAPHS
could be placed beside the computer, so that the information need not be entered in a separate 'window' on the computer. I think that I, personally, would find it faster and less confusing......
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
javakeda


Users avatar

Posts
73
Registered at
2013-03-01 03:18:22
2013-12-20 05:19:26 - Re: Performance loss
Agree with Rod on this point.
This would be extremely handy for those SOLers who are traveling or have a job/social_event to go to.

IMO, keeping the "casual" skipper in the game is important to SOL in the longer term.

What is a "casual" skipper?
Someone with a life outside of SOL.
We need them!

--- Last Edited by javakeda at 2013-12-20 05:21:32 ---
Posted by
kroppyer


Users avatar

Posts
347
Registered at
2010-02-05 15:25:55
2013-12-20 12:17:26 - Re: Performance loss
Rod suggested to make a graph of the formulas, so here you go.

These two graphs should, together the the knowledge that:
> Tacking and gybing results in a performance loss of half the boatspeed in percentages
> Any manoeuvre executed with a performance of below 93% will not cause extra performance loss
> Performance loss is subtracted from current performance*

should give you a fairly accurate approximation of the performance loss for all normal cases.

*) Not true, but reasonable approximation for the usual values. When stacking performance losses (not waiting until you get to 100%), this gets inaccurate.

The distance lost graph becomes inaccurate on high speeds.

________
EDIT: I will update the "distance-lost-graph.png" to make it more readible, and easier to read of the distance lost after a single tack of gybe more easily. If you want to print this, and you are short in paper or ink, I would suggest you wait a day or two (at most) so that you can print the updated version, without wasting paper. Save the trees! ;)


EDIT
New graphs and explanation can be downloaded as pdf here


--- Last Edited by kroppyer at 2013-12-21 23:34:15 ---
Attachments

Page: First Previous 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next Last

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

South China Sea Race 2026


Welcome all to the South China Sea and a virtual chase in Cookson 50’s of the Rolex South China Sea fleet, racing 650nm – as the local red-footed booby flies – from Hong Kong to Subic Bay on the southern tip of The Philippines’ Luzon Island. Chances are it will be a fast downwind ride, so see how you can keep up with the real-life fleet which we hope to be able to follow on our monitors.
Race #2016
INFOby brainaid.de
Cookson 50 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SUPBUD - SYC
Race starts: Mar 04th 03:20 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

SSANZ Round North Island Race 2026 - Leg 2

Leg Two of our Round North Island Series is where the real challenge begins. After Mangonui, our SOLers face a demanding 491nm passage around the top of the North Island and down the rugged west coast toward Cook Strait. Long miles, exposed waters, and relentless tactical choices will test every SOLer. In our powerful Sun Fast 3600s, a proven short-handed performer and true downwind flyer, endurance, timing, and smart routing will be key to success!

The start time for this race may change at short notice to align with the real race. The confirmed start date and time will be announced via an in-race “L” flag message — Please monitor race communications closely.
Race #2012
INFO by brainaid.de
Sun Fast 3600 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: RNI - SUPBUD - SYC
Race starts: Mar 02nd 21:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Iceland to the Falklands 2026

Welcome to an all-new route, the first of three Round the 'Old World' of Europe, Africa, Australia and Asia. To give each leg of the ROW a bit of length we'll try to hug the coasts as little as possible, so starting in Iceland our first leg of the series, which will also be the final leg of our Quarter 1 Ocean Championships takes us 7200nm to the Falklands, the full length of the Atlantic end to end. To make sure we'll get it done within the month we'll be sailing our Maxi Trimaran.
Race #2010
INFO by brainaid.de
Maxi Trimaran PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ1 - ROW - OCCH - SYC
Race starts: Mar 02nd 11:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

SSANZ Round North Island Race 2026 - Leg 1

Welcome to Leg One of the Round North Island Series in partnership with SSANZ. The four-leg circuit of New Zealand’s North Island is a true test of short-handed skill, and it begins with the 150nm passage from Auckland to Mangonui. This year, our SOLers will be racing the dynamic Sun Fast 3600 – Jeanneau’s renowned racer-cruiser and a proven flyer downwind. A gentle opener on paper… but coastal tactics and shifting breezes will demand focus from the start!
Race #2011
INFO by brainaid.de
Sun Fast 3600 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: RNI - SUPBUD - SYC
Race starts: Feb 28th 21:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

San Diego to Puerto Vallarta 2026

Welcome to California! Established in 1953 this 1000-mile run from San Diego to Puerto Vallarta on the Mexican Riviera has become a tradition and online as well the tradition strengthens with this the fourth time Sailonline is making the race available to virtual sailors. Let's see how our virtual SC70s perform against the real fleet!
Race #2015
INFO by brainaid.de
Santa Cruz 70 Particulars
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SUPBUD - SYC
Race starts: Feb 28th 20:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

New Ice Age 2026 - Browerville to Longyearbyen


Our 2026 long-distance ice-boating challenge continues with a second race in Arctic waters, now from Browerville, where we arrived less than a month ago, continuing east, back to Svalbard’s Longyearbyen, leaving Canada’s Ellesmere Island to port and Denmark’s Greenland to starboard. It’s about 2500nm, which, if there’s wind at all, should, well-wrapped in your DN-cockpits, not take you more than a day or three, thus to complete your first (of several) online circumnavigation of the planet of 2026!
Race #1969
INFOby brainaid.de
DN PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: NIA - SYC
Race starts: Feb 19th 07:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Beketov by Balloon 2026 - In Siberia


Way-back-when France and England, and Spain as well, were squabbling about who should control what of North America, only to lose the most of it to their own insurging colonists, their eastern European neighbour empire, Russia, was quietly assimilating vast, thinly nomadically populated territory of its own – Siberia! Amongst the many explorers and adventurers that served Russia so well in these conquests was the Cossack hetman Pyotr Beketov. Let’s pretend we’re he and eschewing horseback, let’s travel by balloon from Yekaterinberg to Krasnoyarsk – just a short 2000km (1100nm) section of the Trans-Siberian Express’ 9289km!
Race #1972
INFOby brainaid.de
SOL Balloon PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: BOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Wednesday,
March 4 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Feb 03rd 13:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rumskib
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member vida
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Sax747
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CollegeFund
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member BRENTGRAY

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client