Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » General Discussion » Handicap Results

Page: 1 2 Next

Posted by
Chappo


Users avatar

Posts
53
Registered at
2009-04-17 12:00:35
2011-05-26 01:27:16 - Handicap Results
I have not checked the forum (is there a search function? ) so this has probably been thrashed out years ago but here is my suggestion. Do others see merit in the possibility of calculating handicap results (or even handicap starts) for some of the ocean races to encourage newer members to persevere with developing their SOL skills. I was thinking that by using the results of the previous race run the year before, you have an immediate TCF (Time Correction Factor). So if the winner's elapsed time in the same race the year before was say 100 hours, then all other finishers for say the top 300 (to exclude the results of yachts that grounded for an extended period and then went on to finish) have a TCF factor. So a yacht finishing in 110 hours has a TCF factor of 100/110 or .90909 applied to their finishing time in the current race to get their handicap adjusted time. The whole idea is only feasible if it is heavily computerised to avoid it being a manually time consuming task. Amongst the many very experienced computer program writers in SOL, (I am not one), I would hope it would not be a big job to write such a program using the results of the previous years races, calculating the TCF and then applying it to the next race results to produce a table of the handicap performances. I appreciate any handicap system is open to abuse, for example some skippers may decide to finish just under 300 so that they can get a very favourable handicap and then blitz everyone next year. But hopefully these abuses are a small minority, are quite transparent and there is still a good challenge for many of the newer members who have trouble cracking the top 200, 150, 100 etc. I would be pleased to hear your comments.
Posted by
zero


Users avatar

Posts
120
Registered at
2010-02-07 16:56:30
2011-05-26 03:51:21 - Re: Handicap Results
Peter,

Your system works when the boat is being sailed at all times at the best of the crew abilities. Like in real live sailing.

Here on SOL the boats are oten left alone on some delayed command (DC) which we all know are not always optimum. The reason for DC's is that we all have others things to do beside virtual sailing.

It is impossible to know how much dedication a SOL sailor was able to put on a particular race. Perhaps one race he/she was lucky to be sitting on the computer 85% of the race and them the next race life outside was calling and it was only 20% of dedication time for SOL.

The system would be comparing apples with oranges.

As you probably already know, win races on SOL is very difficult. (As is in real life sailing, by the way)
But, you can do well here on SOL if you manage to stay awake and near the computer thru out the duration of the race.

In my opinion there is no correction time system that would substitute the dedication of a SOL sailor.

There are many posts in the forum about divide the fleet in classes. This is a somewhat "hot" subject within the community, so read the posts at your own risk :)

In the meantime have fun SOL'ing, it is not always about wining.

Antonio (zero)
Posted by
Chappo


Users avatar

Posts
53
Registered at
2009-04-17 12:00:35
2011-05-26 04:21:52 - Re: Handicap Results
Yep good points Antonio, I guess I am assuming the skipper would be putting in the same amount of time he/she did in the same race last time because the race would start at the same time so have similar waking sleeping hours as the last race. As you say you can always go better in SOL if you put in more time on the computer and do more nav projections. It is clear that the better skippers put in more time and have better tools than the average sailor and also time share the yacht in some cases.
I note you have been achieving fantastic results, especially in the shorter races.
I basically race against myself, ie try to get better results more consistently. That becomes hard when you are getting results like yours! Still is always challenging fun.
Posted by
Jeroen


Users avatar

Posts
245
Registered at
2007-08-15 09:17:47
2011-05-26 06:54:31 - Re: Handicap Results
Hi Peter,

Interesting point you brought up. We have had a interesting race recently where we did some rated results after the race and people found it verry interesting.
I will have a good look at your suggestion but like Zero pointed out a Sol boat gets a broad range of attention. This could impact the rankings you suggest. But I will have a closer look at it for sure.

Thanks Jeroen
I am a ex-admin of SOL who joins in from time to time.
Posted by
Chappo


Users avatar

Posts
53
Registered at
2009-04-17 12:00:35
2011-05-26 07:03:03 - Re: Handicap Results
Thanks Jeroen, you will now be working 25 hours a day. Interesting to ponder whether a sailors attention level will increase just because they have a chance of a better handicap result. But if they do they will also be improving their chances of a better scratch result, thereby affecting their handicap the next time they race that course!! Just like IRL sailing! I have only brought this up as a way of better engaging the newer SOL'er while they improve their scratch racing skills.
Posted by
Rod


Users avatar

Posts
392
Registered at
2010-06-24 22:30:48
2011-05-26 16:22:55 - Re: Handicap Results
It occurs to me, after reading all the forum posts on the handicapping system, that if all possible factors are taken into account, over a long history of racing, with sailors of varying (but consistent) ability, and yachts of differing performance, that the end result is that all the boats in a race will have adjusted times that result in every yacht being identically FIRST-----and I'm not sure that this is the intention of yacht racing!!!

--- Last Edited by Rod at 2011-05-26 16:24:26 ---
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
Chappo


Users avatar

Posts
53
Registered at
2009-04-17 12:00:35
2011-05-27 01:21:17 - Re: Handicap Results
True Rod, in a perfect world, but isn't the aim of handicapping to find the performance that is "out of the box" by that person's standards, ie they sailed a blinder, got a much higher % of the nav calls right than they normally do. It is a reward for an "out of the skin" performance.
Posted by
Rod


Users avatar

Posts
392
Registered at
2010-06-24 22:30:48
2011-05-27 02:59:09 - Re: Handicap Results
Each individual 'knows' if he's done well--and so do all his friends, and his rivals.
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
Chappo


Users avatar

Posts
53
Registered at
2009-04-17 12:00:35
2011-05-27 03:09:09 - Re: Handicap Results
That is correct in a scratch result. I am mainly interested in encouraging newer SOL'ers to not be frustrated that although they may have improved from finishing 250 to say under 200, that may equate to a top 50 result on handicap so that is cause for a double celebration and would hopefully motivate them more to keep racing. (Chappo)
Posted by
76Trombones


Users avatar

Posts
362
Registered at
2009-08-03 18:04:56
2011-05-27 04:03:49 - Re: Handicap Results
We're starting to talk about two different things: boat handicapping is pretty fixed IRL, and absolute on SOL. Performance handicapping is a whole different matter.

Ignoring multiple boat choices for the time being:

The idea with performance handicapping is 100% to try to get everyone to finish "1st". What this gives you is a measure of performance relative to yourself and like boats. It rewards effort/success in individual races, and overall your performance handicap is representative of your standing in the fleet.

*IF* SOL were to adopt performance handicapping, your "rating" essentially replaces your SYC rank. Every race that you count towards your rating is an opportunity to make your life more difficult. There's _lots_ to commend in this system.

Boat handicapping is designed to level a mixed fleet (very common IRL). Ideally, equal effort/skill/luck produces identical results.

The reason that "hybrid" systems are popular (eg PHRF) is that the point of racing is to test yourself. In a small fleet, put a hot team in a fast boat and sure they win the local RTB series every summer... woo.. Performance handicapping give them something to work for - ditto for the rookies in the Cal 20.

;-)

--- Last Edited by 76Trombones at 2011-05-27 10:57:46 ---

Page: 1 2 Next

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Tall Ships 2026 - Stavanger to Aalborg


Welcome to the fourth of four virtual Tall Ships Races in European waters which are concurrently being organized in-real-life by Sail Training International . This fourth race is from Stavanger in Norway into the Skaggerak to a finish off Denmark’s Aalborg and perhaps an Aquavit to toast the adventure afterwards – a final circa 250nm in Sailonline’s classic Clipper 240.
NOTE: Starts and Finishes in tall ships racing are always offshore to avoid conflict with shipping and shipping lanes; online and real-life may not match exactly.
Race #1995
INFO by brainaid.de
Clipper 240 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: TSI - SUPBUD - SYC
Race starts: Jul 25th 16:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Chinook Salmon - Canada to Andreanovs


A year after spawning in the upper reaches of the rivers of British Columbia, Chinook Salmon develop the age-old urge, so familiar to SOLers, to go to sea, heading for different parts of the northern Pacific Ocean. This race catches up with a particular school with an instinctive memory for the Andreanov Islands far west on the Aleutian Islands chain, as they depart the Salian Sea between Vancouver Island and the San Juans. It’s 2200nm and we’re taking the 60ft Trimaran, in the hope we can keep up!
Race #2048
INFOby brainaid.de
60ft Trimaran PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: MIG - SYC
Race starts: Jul 21st 11:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Juventud TIMED Race 2026

Welcome to Isla de la Juventud (Isle of Youth), Cuba’s second largest island after mainland Cuba. Known as a haven for pirates, the island was the inspiration for novels “Treasure Island” and “Peter Pan”. The circa 120nm course runs clockwise around the island.
This is a TIMEDrace so you may RE-REGISTER HEREto try again after finishing a run. You will have two weeks to test your skill and decision making after the race opens.
Race #2049
INFOby brainaid.de
The boat for this race is the sporty Mini 6.5p Foil PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
TRQ3 - TRCH - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
1 August at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Jul 19th 12:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Tall Ships 2026 - Antwerpen to Stavanger


Welcome to the third of four virtual Tall Ships Races in European waters which are concurrently being organized in-real-life by Sail Training International . This third race is from Antwerpen back up the North Sea to Stavanger in Norway – another proper tall ship training adventure of circa 450nm, online again in Sailonline’s classic Clipper 240.
NOTE: Starts and Finishes in tall ships racing are always offshore to avoid conflict with shipping and shipping lanes; online and real-life may not match exactly.
Race #1994
INFO by brainaid.de
Clipper 240 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: TSI - SUPBUD - SYC
Race starts: Jul 14th 16:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Lake Ontario 300 Challenge 2026

Lake Ontario Offshore Racing (LOOR) welcomes Sailonline sailors to a second virtual version of a race in their annual series, and for the sixth year in succession the LO300. As the name implies, the LO300 is a 300nm offshore race across the length and breadth of Lake Ontario, from and back to Port Credit YC. This year, for the first time, we will be racing the 300nm circuit in Sun Fast 3200s. As usual, there is an overall prize for the SOLer who best bosses Lake Ontario over the two races hosted by Sailonline, this LO300 and the Susan Hood raced back in May, and this year also the race and the Susan Hood count towards the title of Super Buddy 2026; so, let the competition be fierce!
Race #2044
INFOby brainaid.de
Sun Fast 3200 PARTICULARS
NAM_AWIP WX Updates:
0245 / 0845 / 1445 / 2045
Ranking: LOOR - SUPBUD - SYC
Race starts: Jul 11th 15:10 Registration Closed

▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Alaska to Easter Island 2026

Welcome to yet another all-new series. The initial leg of the RNW (Round the New World), Alaska to Easter Island, also part of our Ocean Championship. The first race of OCQ3 2026. This race will be sailed in our revised 'version 2' Imoca 60 Foil. Race #2042
INFO by brainaid.de
Imoca 60 Foil v2 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ3 - RNW - OCCH - SYC
Race starts: Jul 06th 11:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Cross the Convergence 2026 - Sao Tomé to Tristan

The fifth race of our series of ocean voyages across the World’s convergence zones takes us back south down the Atlantic from Sao Tomé on the Equator to Tristan da Cunha on the edge of the Roaring Forties. It’s 2500nm; in your path the Benguela winds and current along the south west African coast, and behind that the St Helena High stretching halfway to South America. So, mind where you go in your Volvo OD65 version 3 (based on sampled real-life race data by kroppyer)!
Race #1985
INFOby brainaid.de
Volvo OD65v3 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: CCZ - SYC
Race starts: Jul 03rd 18:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Panpyc
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member cdhinman
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member ms0689
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member sassy63
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member ita10267

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client