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Ahoy Javakeda !

In PR rules there is cutting marks and jumping SLI's forbidden. Cutting the mark usually will not cause a this big advantage that a 360 will not level out things. Jumping SLI's is a "failure" of SOL, which is unrealistic and I avoid it in real races as well... PR's are IMHO to find out about boat performance and to have entertaining chat. If newbies there exercicse not to cut marks its no drawback for real racing.
Having different rankings for pro and novice sailors sounds not that bad, but as it is now it's allready hard work for racecommitee, it should be fun for organizers too, right ? But if you feel the need for it , feel free to invent newbie ranking !
Sailing is very much about obeying rules, so for my understanding its not wrong to read rules before racing , not race and then be confused by the rules that were agreed before.. To be started one has to cross the startline... And rounding correct after a missed attempt I do myself mostly, and yes, this is worse for result then a 360ty, but I think this is more correct.
Yes, the rules are slightly different then in real races, but once thought about why this is like it is its not unbearable me thinks.. After all, the main point is fun, for all who take part...
More rakings could be nice, but who would like to create them...

Cheers, Roland

This post reflects of course my personal opinion...


--- Zuletzt bearbeitet von stoertebaeker am 2013-04-12 07:20:51 ---
Java and Stoer

I agree there was a feeling that something was amiss in the PR chat and my post ws not meant to take away from that at all. Rather it was meant to convey support for the strength of the format as it currently stands as a event to socialise, learn the boat and the game.

My feeling is that the events in the last race were unusual and discussions were around whether a penalty was severe enough for a particular infringement. As a noob I dont have enough experience to comment on that at all.

However subsiquent discussions, both on the boards and here, has highlighted the desire of some players to have more frequent shorter (possibly daily 2 hour duration) races that are competitive and maybe also count towards some form of (sprint?) ranking in addition to the PRs and ranking current races.

An additional format tho does raise questions. Is it possible to run 2 classes in 1 race? ie strict rules for those who want PRs to be competitive and a more informal class. Will race admins be able to keep an eye on both classes? Will the added tasks take the fun out of it for them? I think only those who can run the PRs can answer that. Their view here is vital and as Stoer says, they need to enjoy their time too. Without them the game would flounder.

If it is not possible to race 2 classes in 1 race, then capacity becomes an issue, both in terms of the game and people to run it.

Personally if this the case I would like to see PRs continue to take the format they have until short ranking races can be set up. I say this as a form of ranking races already exists and there is a need to provide an opportunity for novices to learn the controls, for all to learn new boats and to meet up and chat.

Stoer. As a novice I like the fact Im in there with the more experienced sailors. It gives me something to aim at and passing them on the rankings is something I look forward to doing..... some distant day! ;) In addition to this, where would you put someone who is experienced but who enjoys the less serious side of things?

In short, ask the race committee if they can do 2 classes in 1 race and enjoy it. if not keep it as it is, but look into the possibility of holding daily sprint races for those who want to be ranked. Just an idea.
There are Practice Racing Rules

and on re-reading them I see that Marks and Missing a Mark are both addressed.

What is not, separately addressed is missing the startline by going outside or cutting a mark used for that line.

Logic would tell me that the Missing a Mark rule should apply.

The snag with the PR yesterday (11 April) is that when Dana1 announced that he had missed the start as soon as the PR had started, I said he should return to the start.

In the past that is what I have done and what others have done.

Last night, having spent most of the day checking on new races and preparing the draft May racing calendar I was too tired to check the rules, so I have to apologise to anyone for leaving things "open".

Today, having re-read the Rules, established after hours of debate and years of practice racing, I think the issue is sufficiently addressed.

MustangMark - no it is not currently possible to have more than one class in a practice race or, for that matter, in a SOL race (and have the classes ranked separately by the server).

At present the practice races are an all-manual affair but, who knows what the future may bring.

javakeda All suggestions to improve or otherwise enhance SOL are always welcome - just please remember that we are a tiny volunteer team running SOL and sadly because our chief coder and amazing design-guru died unexpectedly just under a year ago we have somewhat lost a little headway on developments/progress.

The current GUI (user interface) is Aaron's legacy, released to SOLers after his death, prior to that the version showing in Race Descriptions as SOL Classic Client was our standard.

The future is always bright and full of possibility. Any bright ideas please just either mention them in chat (just in case there is already a thread about them) or otherwise search in the Forums for a phrase/keyword.

Because SOL is wiki-based to search effectively, just open a new browser tab and where the url should be type:


and then your search term/phrase. That will generate results for you.

Hope this helps guys :-D

--- Last Edited by RainbowChaser at 2013-04-12 17:38:25 ---
Thanks RC (and others), for looking into this in detail. So the penalty for missing a start mark, or a turning mark is a 360.

Naturally if someone grossly cuts a mark a 360 will not be sufficient and a disqualification results, or then a rerounding is needed.

I didn't mean to raise this havoc. Just wanted to understand the rule.

Thanks all,
Dana1 well.. if you read Missing a Mark this is what it says:

Missing a Mark: Like in real life, if you start from the Gun in a practice race and miss a mark then you will only be eligible for a ranking if you either (1) return to the mark and round it correctly or (2) all racers agree a 360 penalty may be sailed.

So... if the SOLer missing the start mark (or crashing it) immediately spots the problem, then it might be quicker to just nip back round the start and get racing, rather than wait for chat to agree what the penalty should be!!

In radio-control sailing, where missing a start mark, and / or hitting a start mark, are fairly common, the usual rule is the you do a 360 turn for "hitting the mark", and if you merely miss it, you have "failed to start", so must return and start correctly.
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
If you hit the mark, but your boat continues and crosses the S-F line, you must return by turning outside the mark, doing your 360, and then starting correctly. You cannot count your turn around the mark as the 360 penalty turn.
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but if we have different rules for newbies in the PRs, then we are, de facto, running two classes in the same race. They only question is whether they are scored separately.

And that brings up the question of PR scoring.
IMHO, Each PR should stand on its own, and results should not count toward some 'series' total.
-- promotes a freer approach to 'practice' in advance of the main race.
-- reduces the record-keeping burden for the Race Committee.
-- keeps the focus on the process of practicing racing rather than on race results.

In order to reduce issues that Robert1 brought up earlier, I support liberal use of a 360 [or two] as the normal penalty in PRs. This keeps the racer in the race.
It should be clear to all, however, that a mark MUST be rounded properly in the main race.
Experienced racers may wish to 'practice' mark rounding under main race rules. After all, such skills could come in handy when the scoring really counts.

Above all, I believe that practice races should be fun. The rules should be consistently applied, but should be formed to maximize the fun.
For the vast majority of people, sailing boats is done for fun (there are very few paid professionals nowadays). Many SOLers have no prior experience with full-size or model sailing.
SOLing is therefore an introduction to the sport for many people, a place to practice for those already familiar with sailboat racing, and a place to keep sharp the mental processes involved in the sport for those trying to be 'experts'.
I feel it would be a mistake to neglect or disobey all of the normal rules of sailboat racing when it is those things that we are actually trying to do. (You do not learn to play any sport by neglecting the rules)
In addition, I would like to see some sort of record maintained of the finish order of the Practice Races---if you don't know how well you are doing, it becomes difficult to improve your performance.
All of these things would apply to full-size and radio-model racing, just as much as to SOL.
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Rod - all very good points.

Just the other day I was thinking how useful it would be if someone went through all the Practice Race results in the PR Forum and collated them... sadly, I don't have the time to do something like this. As it is, what time I have online is pretty full-on with SOL stuff already!

At least we know the raw data is available so as/when someone has the time or inclination to pull it together, it is possible to do so :-)

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