Login
Support Sailonline
If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!
Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!
Page: Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Last
Posted by Rod |
|
I just did two gybes in a row in the start of the Kergulen timed race. In the first I forgot about the 93% and my perf dropped below 85%. I started the second gybe with a perf of 89% and stepped around in about 4 or 5 steps, completing my gybe at a perf of 90% increasing my perf at each step.
I contend this is vital information that should be known to all, that it cannot be derived by direct observation, or by prior knowledge of how a sailboat performs in reality! If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy. |
|
Posted by A2 ![]() |
|
These discussions have occurred in the past but it tends to run in cycles so that when it re-emerges often what was once public knowledge can subside into a quasi state of urban lengend.
Finding these nuggets in this Forum can be a challenge even if you are looking for something that you yourself have posted. ========================= Wrong Speed VMG Posted by Jakob Kuttenkeuler 2009-02-09 (discussing performance loss model) "Well, the current model determines if the maneouver is a tack or a gybe or just a minor change in twa (dTWA is the twa change). If (tack or gybe) {e = 1.0-self.bs/200.0} else {e = 1-abs(dTWA)/25.0}. perf = perf*e. However if perf<0.93 no further maneouver loss is done. something like that." --- Last Edited by A2R at 2013-10-11 13:48:19 --- None so blind |
|
Posted by Rod |
|
Many thanks, A2R!!!!
That is the information that we should have had right at the beginning of this whole discussion. I hope that it will be incorporated in the Manual in a prominent position. I have inquired about the perf loss problem several times over the last three four years and, until now, never received even a hint of an answer P.S. I will attempt to generate a diagrammatic representation of this situation for the benefit of those among us who are more comfortable with diagrams than equations. P.P.S. Now all we need to find out is the rate at which the Performance returns to 100% after a Tack, Gybe, or Course Change. I do hope someone will post the info---in the meantime I will experiment in the Kergulen screen (there are no good windows in the time remaining.) --- Last Edited by Rod at 2013-10-11 14:33:17 --- --- Last Edited by Rod at 2013-10-11 14:41:56 --- If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy. |
|
Posted by A2 ![]() |
|
Well depending on your Point of View it was either hiding in plain sight or it was a needle in the haystack, so to speak.
I found it because I went looking for it, plain & simple, as anyone could have done. None so blind |
|
Posted by Rod |
|
You can only look for things that you suspect do exist. My point is that there is nothing in the performance of a sailboat during a change in course that would lead anyone to suspect that the loss of speed would be reduced by dividing the course change into two steps. If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy. |
|
Posted by A2 ![]() |
|
I neither knew that it existed or that it did not exist. Looking is a choice as is not looking. I found more than I expected to, so let's move forward from here. None so blind |
|
Posted by captjack1942 ![]() |
|
No accounting for Serendipity, eh Rod?
![]() |
|
Posted by Rod |
|
Relying on Serendipity makes you a "Prince of Serendip". I am no 'prince'...science does not rely on just good luck. It needs observation, reasoning, and experimentation. Good luck may happen---then you win the lottery and don't have to worry about anything except greedy relatives....... If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy. |
|
Posted by A2 ![]() |
|
Initiative often succeeds where rationalization cannot. None so blind |
|
Posted by WIN ![]() |
|
ciao ALL my friends
![]() just a little contribution from me on this subject : I remember a few years ago a french soler discovered that jybing in several steps was reducing the perf loss, so I tried to see how it worked ......I did it once only and never again . two main reasons for that : 1) by so doing the boat runs a longer course , and some of your perf loss saving is gone already, and the time at lower speed below VMG during the maneuver eats away another portion of the saving 2) ( and this is the main reason ) ....after the jybe your angle towards the next mark will no longer be the same and could be worst .......for longtime. It is very true that also the contrary of item 2) may occur , but item 1) still stands . IRL an offshore jybe is " smoothed" not so much for performance , but maily for smoothing the maneuver by the crew and keep the spi flying ......whilst , in-shore jybing around a mark smoothing the jybe could cost a number of positions . Hope you all accept it as an opinion and contribution .. ciaooooooooooooo ![]() ![]() ![]() Piero PS : I did win quite a number of races in SOL , but never because I smoothed jybing or tacking to reduce perf loss.. ![]() |
Page: Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Last
Please login to post a reply.Races
Next Race: 00d 00h 00m
Current Races:
Auckland to Fiji 2023
Welcome to Auckland and, for the fifth time in Sailonline's history, an epic race to the Polynesian island of Fiji , some 1144nm away. The iconic Steinlager 2 has traditionally been our boat of choice for this event, including in 2020, the last time we raced the course – alone, unaccompanied by a real fleet as it had been #COVID19 quarantined. Hopefully, though, this time we’ll again be showing you how you are doing versus the real tracked boats. Have fun!
Race #1675
INFO by brainaid.de
Steinlager 2 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
SYQ2 - SYCCH - SUPSOL - SYC
Race starts: Jun 03rd 01:00 Registration will open soon
GO TO RACE
Susan Hood Trophy Race 2023

Lake Ontario Offshore Racing (LOOR) welcomes racers to the third virtual Susan Hood Trophy race. This is a 75nm weekender on western Lake Ontario starting and finishing at the Port Credit Yacht Club (PCYC) via Niagara and Burlington, and is one of two that will count towards a special Sailonline's LOOR Series medals. As our Beneteau First 36.7 managed the course so well in previous years, we shall race her again!
Race #1690
INFOby brainaid.de
First 36.7 PARTICULARS
NAM_AWIP WX Updates:
0245 / 0845 / 1445 / 2045
Ranking: SYC - LOOR
Race starts: Jun 03rd 00:00
Registration Open!
SoCal 300 2023

Here, once again, is your chance to participate virtually in a second race of the California Race Week calendar, SDYC's challenging 243nm (as the seagull flies) SoCal 300 from Santa Barbara to San Diego. With a broad range of boats entered in the real race, virtual SOLers will have to dig deep to remain competitive in our trusty Santa Cruz 52s.
Race #1674
INFO by brainaid.de
Santa Cruz 52 PARTICULARS
NAM_AWIP WX Updates:
0245 / 0845 / 1445 / 2045
Ranking: SYC
Race starts: Jun 01st 20:00 Registration Open!
GO TO RACE
Cape Town to Auckland 2023
Welcome to this second RTW race 2023. It's also the June edition of this year's ocean race championship. The course is slightly different from the one sailed in 2020, which then also was part of the RTW series.
This time we will race in the IMOCA 60 foil, as in all RTW races this year. That should guarantee the fun in the South Seas in a truly tough race.
PRIZE: SMPF
Race# 1685
INFO from brainaid.de
IMOCA 60 foil Particulars
WX updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ2 - OCCH - RTW - SUPSOL - SYC
Race starts: Jun 01st 09:00
Registration Open!
CA 500 2023
To celebrate the 50th anniversary of the TransPac Ocean Race in 2019, the organisers of the California Race Week introduced a new longer distance event for line-honours machines. Popular with the largest maxi trimarans, this CA 500, 500nm from San Francisco to San Diego, repeats in 2023, and if you don’t own a maxi trimaran, Sailonline are delighted to have the honour to, for the first time, make their virtual version available to you for a quick ethereal dash down America’s west coast.
Race #1687
INFO by brainaid.de
Maxi Tri PARTICULARS
NAM_AWIP WX Updates:
0245 / 0845 / 1445 / 2045
Ranking: SYC
Race starts: May 26th 18:00 Registration Open!
GO TO RACE
Iceberg Dodge TIMED Race 2023
Designed by NZL_Scotsman, this 34nm TIMED race takes us around Kobbermine Bugt. This is the 4th iteration of this race, having been held every 3 years since 2014. Climate change may have eased our access to these fjords but watch your roundings - navigating around those islands continue to remain tricky! The target time to beat is 5:01:11, set in 2017.
RE-REGISTER HERE to race again after finishing a run
Race #1655
INFO by brainaid.de
J-80 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
TRQ2 - TRCH - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Sunday, 28 May at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: May 13th 12:00
Registration Open!
Lisbon to Cape Town 2023
Our second OCC race in Q2 is also our first race of a special
6-race RTW series, in IMOCA 60 Foilers, from the board of ita10267. Long bluewater legs, with the shores of the World's continents the only restriction on where you may sail, starting with a 5000nm leg from Lisbon to Cape Town. Enjoy!
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1683
INFOby brainaid.de
IMOCA 60 foil Particulars
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ2 - OCCH - RTW - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Thursday,
June 1 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: May 03rd 09:00
Registration Closed
SYC Ranking
Series
- SYC ranking
- 2023 TRQ4
- 2023 TRQ3
- 2023 TRQ2
- 2023 TRQ1
- 2023 TRCH
- 2023 SVS
- 2023 SUPerSOLer
- 2023 SPRQ4
- 2023 SPRQ3
- 2023 SPRQ2
- 2023 SPRQ1
- 2023 SPRCH
- 2023 RTW
- 2023 RNI
- 2023 OCQ4
- 2023 OCQ3
- 2023 OCQ2
- 2023 OCQ1
- 2023 OCCH
- 2023 LOOR
- 2023 DN
- 2023 ARQ4
- 2023 ARQ3
- 2023 ARQ2
- 2023 ARQ1
- 2023 ARCH
- 2022 TRQ4
- 2022 TRQ3
- 2022 TRQ2
- 2022 TRQ1
- 2022 TRCH
- 2022 TD
- 2022 Tall Ships
- 2022 SUPerSOLer
- 2022 SSANZ
- 2022 SSA
- 2022 SPRQ4
- 2022 SPRQ3
- 2022 SPRQ2
- 2022 SPRQ1
- 2022 SPRCH
- 2022 SHE
- 2022 OCQ4
- 2022 OCQ3
- 2022 OCQ2
- 2022 OCQ1
- 2022 OCCH
- 2022 NTR
- 2022 LOOR
- 2022 CTR
- 2022 ARQ4
- 2022 ARQ3
- 2022 ARQ2
- 2022 ARQ1
- 2022 ARCH
- 2021 TRQ4
- 2021 TRQ3
- 2021 TRQ2
- 2021 TRQ1
- 2021 TRCH
- 2021 TD
- 2021 Tall Ships
- 2021 SYCQ4
- 2021 SYCQ3
- 2021 SYCQ2
- 2021 SYCQ1
- 2021 SYCCH
- 2021 SUPerSOLer
- 2021 SSANZ
- 2021 SPRQ4
- 2021 SPRQ3
- 2021 SPRQ2
- 2021 SPRQ1
- 2021 SPRCH
- 2021 Shetland
- 2021 PAC6
- 2021 OCQ4
- 2021 OCQ3
- 2021 OCQ2
- 2021 OCQ1
- 2021 OCCH
- 2021 ESRW
- 2020 TSE
- 2020 TSA
- 2020 TRQ4
- 2020 TRQ4
- 2020 TRQ3
- 2020 TRQ2
- 2020 TRQ1
- 2020 TRCH
- 2020 Tasman Double
- 2020 SYCQ4
- 2020 SYCQ3
- 2020 SYCQ2
- 2020 SYCQ1
- 2020 SYCCH
- 2020 SUPerSOLer
- 2020 SSANZ
- 2020 SRQ4
- 2020 SRQ3
- 2020 SRQ2
- 2020 SRQ1
- 2020 SPRCH
- 2020 Shetland
- 2020 RTW
- 2020 RNI
- 2020 Odyssey
- 2020 OCQ4
- 2020 OCQ3
- 2020 OCQ2
- 2020 OCQ1
- 2020 OCCH
- 2020 A3
- 2019 TRQ4
- 2019 TRQ3
- 2019 TRQ2
- 2019 TRQ1
- 2019 TRCH
- 2019 Tasman Double
- 2019 Tall Ships
- 2019 SYCQ4
- 2019 SYCQ3
- 2019 SYCQ2
- 2019 SYCQ1
- 2019 SYCCH
- 2019 SUPerSOLer
- 2019 SSANZ
- 2019 SRQ4
- 2019 SRQ3
- 2019 SRQ2
- 2019 SRQ1
- 2019 SPRCH
- 2019 Shetland
- 2019 Round New Zealand
- 2019 OCQ4
- 2019 OCQ3
- 2019 OCQ2
- 2019 OCQ1
- 2019 OCCH
- 2018 TRQ4
- 2018 TRQ3
- 2018 TRQ2
- 2018 TRQ1
- 2018 TRCH
- 2018 Tasman Double
- 2018 Tall Ships
- 2018 SUPSOL
- 2018 SSANZ Triple
- 2018 SRQ4
- 2018 SRQ3
- 2018 SRQ2
- 2018 SRQ1
- 2018 SPRCH
- 2018 Shetland
- 2018 Shackleton Challenge
- 2018 OCQ4
- 2018 OCQ3
- 2018 OCQ2
- 2018 OCQ1
- 2018 OCCH
- 2018 40CH
- 2017 TS RDV
- 2017 TRQ4
- 2017 TRQ3
- 2017 TRQ2
- 2017 TRQ1
- 2017 TRCH
- 2017 Tasman Double
- 2017 Tall Ships
- 2017 SWR
- 2017 SUPSOL
- 2017 SSANZ Triple
- 2017 SSANZ RNI
- 2017 SPRR3
- 2017 SPRR2
- 2017 SPRR1
- 2017 SPRCH
- 2017 Red Dot
- 2017 OCQ4
- 2017 OCQ3
- 2017 OCQ2
- 2017 OCQ1
- 2017 OCCH
- 2017 40CQ3&4
- 2017 40CQ1&2
- 2016 TRQ4
- 2016 TRQ3
- 2016 TRQ2
- 2016 TRQ1
- 2016 TRCH
- 2016 Tasman Double
- 2016 Tall Ships
- 2016 SUPSOL
- 2016 SSANZ Triple
- 2016 SRQ4
- 2016 SRQ3
- 2016 SRQ2
- 2016 SRQ1
- 2016 SPRCH
- 2016 RTWR
- 2016 OCQ4
- 2016 OCQ3
- 2016 OCQ2
- 2016 OCQ1
- 2016 OCCH
- 2016 Corporate Open Gold
- 2016 A3
- 2015 TRQ4
- 2015 TRQ3
- 2015 TRQ2
- 2015 TRQ1
- 2015 TRCH
- 2015 Tasman Double
- 2015 Tall Ships
- 2015 SYQ4
- 2015 SYQ3
- 2015 SYQ2
- 2015 SYQ1
- 2015 SYCCH
- 2015 SUPSOL
- 2015 SSANZ Triple
- 2015 SRQ4
- 2015 SRQ3
- 2015 SRQ2
- 2015 SRQ1
- 2015 SPRCH
- 2015 OCQ4
- 2015 OCQ3
- 2015 OCQ2
- 2015 OCQ1
- 2015 OCCH
- 2015 Aegean Rally
- 2014 Timed Races Championship
- 2014 Tasman Double
- 2014 Tall Ships
- 2014 SYC Championship
- 2014 SSANZ Trio
- 2014 SSANZ RNI
- 2014 Sprints Championship
- 2014 Scandinavian Tour
- 2014 Round The World Race
- 2014 Ocean Championship
- 2014-2015 Sailonline World Race
- 2013 Tall Ships
- 2013 SYC Championship
- 2013 SSANZ B&G Simrad
- 2013 Capt Anderson
- 2012 W Australia Regatta
- 2012 Tall Ships
- 2012 SSANZ B&G Simrad
- 2012 RNZ Two Handed
- 2012 Global Challenge
- 2012 Ecker Cup
- 2012 Black Sea
- 2012 A3
- 2011 Vancouver Island
- 2011 Tasman Double
- 2011 SSANZ B&G Simrad
- 2011 SOL Global Challenge
- 2011 SJORA Series
- 2011 Scandinavian Tour
- 2011 Round North Island
- 2011 Asian Sprints
- 2011-2012 SOL World Race
- 2010 Tasman Double
- 2010 Ouzo Rally
- 2010 Iberian Tour
- 2010 Auckland Regional
- 2009 French SOLo
- 2009 Bosphore - Bretagne
- 2008 SYCC
- 2008 -2013 SYC Week Race Championship
- 2008 -2013 SYC Week-End Race Championship
- 2008 -2013 SYC Ocean Race Championship
- 2008-2009 Sailonline Ocean Race
Mobile Client
SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!