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Board » General Discussion » TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY

Posted by K3 (Bernd) Posts 130 Registered at 2008-08-25 12:34:07	2010-12-11 07:48:24 - Re: TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
	No problem with teams, co-Skippers and success here. Do whatever you like inside our rules! It's creative and a part of our sport. And I'll be always happy about advice from our top-sailors. And it's still a game, nobody should forget that. ciao Bernd
Posted by Tempest Posts 79 Registered at 2009-06-16 17:44:17	2010-12-12 08:13:58 - Re: TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
	First let me start by recognizing the individual (for some top) quality of the individual players. I have no problem if I see these individual players finish in front of me. Second boatsitting is allowed and part of the game. Personally i am not a big fan. But practicly it would be hard to check anyhow who is actually steering the vessel. Still i was not happy to see the situation of four boats doing all the same although it was within game rules and openly admitted on the chat. Ita you maybe right , it becomes a problem when these boats are winning. I tend to see al vessels as individual players and can admire them for there individual performances. I didn't however admire the last "team" performance. It has more to do with gut feeling then with rules. But in the end it is within rules so it is allowed but for me it takes away a little of the brilliance .
Posted by sol Posts 296 Registered at 2008-08-14 11:08:14	2010-12-12 09:20:42 - Re: TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
	I guess a lot comes down to the definition of "boatsitting" that is applied. To me it means ensuring the boat does not hit any islands or stray too for from a decent route. I do think 4 boats being co-operatively skippered and following the same route is probably pushing this boatsitting allowance a little.... Of course I cannot be sure, but it seems to me this was not the intention of the original rule which allows it. As I said, it was probably so a friend could login and get your boat moving again if it hits land or whatever, or you forgot to program your DCs so will sail well of route.... Perhaps if teams are to become more common here, it may be possible for the SOL admins, to allow more than 1 skipper to be allocated to a single boat? As mentioned in this thread, a team of 4 boats consistently finishing in top 10, and therefore occupying 4 spots high on the rankings, isnt imho fair. A football team does not occupy 11 places in their ladder, so shouldnt a 'team boat' only occupy a single spot also? Other than that, people could just ignore the rankings of 3 of the 4 team boats (N-1 for a team of N boats), ie if they occupy ranks 5-8, then the 9th boat can simply consider themselves in position 6 (as 6-8 is essentially the same boat). Just my 2c
Posted by A2 Posts 347 Registered at 2009-10-26 00:39:42	2010-12-12 14:04:25 - Re: TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
	sol's chat privileges were rescinded a while back perhaps posting should be excluded as well. None so blind
Posted by Eddie C. Dost Posts 57 Registered at 2008-08-23 11:40:29	2010-12-13 11:34:27 - Re: TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
	I find it fair when people team up to run their races. I can beat the whole team, but only when I am 100% focused on the race, which means getting up at night at strange times dictated by weather or shorelines, not miss a weather update, not miss a change in strategy of the boats to cover, do lots of work on my own strategy. "Team Italy" did the final tack a little earlier than myself, I should have covered. They simply where better this time, and deserve the win and podium. I have no problem with people building teams. _/)_/)_/) The sea is lovely, dark, and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to sail before I sleep, And miles to sail before I sleep.
Posted by kalle Posts 413 Registered at 2007-06-01 09:58:04	2010-12-13 11:34:30 - Re: TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
	Boat-sitting is explicitly allowed in the rules so no rules has been broken. If someone would like to propose a explicit, consistent and enforceable rule, please start a new discussion here in the forum. Please take a note of all three requirements before posting. I think some of the wording in the chat and here is too strong and I certainly would like to see more balanced discussions in the future. Flamewars does not benefit the SOL community and only create pain for everyone involved. Balanced and creative discussions on the other hand help SOL evolve and continue to be relevant for the community.
Posted by Schakel Posts 183 Registered at 2008-12-19 09:19:00	2010-12-13 12:13:38 - Re: TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
	Thanks for your ruling. Congratulations to the Italian team and I offer my sincere apologies for the harsh words. I can only hope they will be accepted. Having said that, I like to compete on equal terms. Seeing as that is now not possible, I am retiring from SOL. Fair winds, Philip
Posted by WIN Posts 337 Registered at 2009-07-09 23:32:07	2010-12-13 15:02:09 - Re: TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
	Thanks to all those that had given constructive input to this thread , that I have initiated , and now feel the duty to close , to share with those SOL colleagues and friends who may be interested to know what the “Italians” have decided , building on the Iberian 4 experience and some of the valued opinions that have been offered here . Firstly we want to reaffirm that , regardless of any disappointment it may have caused , we have fully adhered to the existing set of SOL sailing rules . Not only that actually!! : as we are passionate sailing sportsmen , and cumulatively account for some 67 years of sailing and racing , and never , ever any of us had breached any of the fundamental ISAF rules , our passion had driven us to transfer those rules in SOL as an individual and team obligation towards all the other competitors . In particular we have consistently applied the ISAF RRS “Basic Principle” ( not applied by those who have accused us of lack of sportsmanship BEFORE an evidence could be offered ) . We have always sailed in our IRL and SOL life as per ISAF RRS “Part 1 rule 2” , and , setting up a team and delivering unsolicited assistance to other boats belonging to the same team we have punctually applied ISAF RRS “Part 4 rule 41d” . Our sportsmanship and fair play attitude is only black or white , and for sure , the moment Sailport will come to this forum and tell us clearly that the rules on team racing have changed our project will be history in an instant mode. Besides , although nobody had mentioned or accounted for the possibility that one bad decision can screw all 4 boats with same amount of probability, as if one decision for 4 boats can only be a winning one (LOL)…we have appreciated a lot some of the comments offered in this thread , and fully understand that 4 boats in top ten basically take away 3 good spots for any other boat , and we liked the idea of the syndicate boat …BUT……should we build a syndicate boat now , and sink our historical 4 boats would be , we guess , a little too much as response ( LOL ) also because freeing the two top spots in the SYC ranking would be as outrageous as thinking they have been occupied only because the last two races team up (LOL) !! We will welcome in foreseeable future races and championship reserved to teams with dedicated ranking . We will welcome the same for syndicates ; we will welcome really solo races where boatsitting would really be totally forbidden and we will welcome any new set of rules Sailport will be willing to apply based on this new exciting and creative team experience In the meantime : What we are going to do is to build a new syndicate boat , whose name will be ITA_2011 . It will make her maiden race on the first ocean race of 2011 , and will participate to any race longer than 999 miles or classified as “ocean” or “series” ( good example the VOR ) . In those instances our 4 historical boats will remain at dock , or , should the skipper want or need to, will race on a total solo mode . In all other occasions each of us will race with own boat , enjoying odd occasional unscheduled boatsitting when needed, and not necessarily from other ITA syndicate members . By doing so we aim to continue to pursue individual excellence in SYC ranking , as well as bringing the new ITA_2011 project in the upper part of it , as any good challenge would claim. One final word on the concept of language and unsubstantiated accusations that have started what in the end had come to be an interesting melt of constructive opinions : words have varying definitions and meanings ; one good rule is to always think not only what we are going to say , or where we are going to say it , BUT ALSO if it will be given by others the same meaning . To me disappointment is not disgust , and , as ITA had said , lack of sportsmanship is cheating . I am 100% sure that Philip did not mean any of the two , and that is why we did not require any excuses . Furthermore , we obviously fully respect his opinions , including , although sad , his latest decisions . See you all soon in SOL waters ……to us it is more than a game ……it is a way to express our passion ! …..ciao from “ the Italians”
Posted by ita10267 Posts 88 Registered at 2008-12-29 10:33:09	2010-12-13 15:44:49 - Re: TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
	I totally endorse what WIN said and I hope this could be a start for a fruitful discussion aimed to a broadening of SOL feature and interests. I need also to express my surprise to Philip decision and, as I believe it came from guts, I hope that it can be taken back. See you all at the SYD-HOB.
Posted by Jeroen Posts 245 Registered at 2007-08-15 09:17:47	2010-12-13 16:12:38 - Re: TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
	Good to see this discussion here, a lot of sailors had a oppinion on this in the chat as well and im sure we can learn from this. I personally agree fully with Kalle as no rules have been broken this is fully within the rules of Sailonline. I can understand the concern people have against sailing several boats as a team. Setting up a dedicated team boat is a good idea. And makes the status more clear too all players. Until now there was no need or indication we needed a rule for this. We wan't to keep the rules to a bare minimum, and hardwired on the server side. As Kalle said feel free to contribute a way to set up a different way to give this new (or more obvious) approach a place within the SOL community. I am a ex-admin of SOL who joins in from time to time.

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