Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » Flag Officers » Rules and Decisions » “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.

Page: Previous 1 2 3 4 Next

Posted by
sol


Users avatar

Posts
297
Registered at
2008-08-14 11:08:14
2017-01-09 20:37:51 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
gone

--- Last Edited by sol at 2017-12-22 16:09:55 ---
Posted by
kroppyer


Users avatar

Posts
347
Registered at
2010-02-05 15:25:55
2017-01-09 23:41:16 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
That is indeed (part of) one of the considered solutions.
Posted by
Go4iT


Users avatar

Posts
128
Registered at
2011-03-14 23:58:15
2017-01-13 15:34:39 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
SAILONLINE RACING RULES 2017 – Further to the exchanges above, where Huib/kroppyer has explained the logic behind the wording of the new rule, SRC would like to add the following that has been advised to and cleared with OPS.

SOLers’ attention is drawn to the updated Sailonline Racing Rules (SRR) that are linked on the SOL Home Page. Whilst a number of anomalies from 2015 were corrected, a new Clause 4 was inserted addressing the perceived use or potential use of BOTS (automated software that acts independent of its owner) under which SOL skippers set up software to have their boat’s heading automatically adjusted over a period of time in the complete absence of, or further personal input by, the boat’s skipper. Clause 4 has been drafted to make such a practice contrary to SRR and to make the boat’s skipper liable to a protest from SRC or another boat in that race. As with all rules they are best if known and followed by all so that they do not have to be enforced. SOLers can rest assured that any protest on this matter, if sustained, may attract serious repercussions for the boat’s skipper.

For the avoidance of any doubt, this rule does not prevent the operation of ‘Routers’ such as qtVlm and BWR etc. where a skipper inputs a destination, routing parameters (speed/accuracy/calculation frequency/shore clearance etc.) and then promptly inputs the outcome to his boat as delayed commands (DCs). Such a practice was and remains acceptable. Some changes have been required to Spinnacer to exclude its ‘auto-pilot’ function and a notice to that effect has been posted in the application since 1st January whilst the software is amended.
SRC


--- Last Edited by Go4iT at 2017-01-13 15:35:09 ---
Posted by
guest


Users avatar

Posts
27
Registered at
2011-06-26 09:54:38
2017-01-17 11:32:11 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
What, dear SRC, is wrong with a more or less intelligent steering-bot.

Is it that despicable if I would program my autopilot with

while twa>42 steer cc ### else steer twa 42

Or something like
if time later than 13:40 go online
while not on lattitude ### stay online
else steer 270 cc
go off line

I would use only data from my own instruments and react only on the changing conditions local to my boat.


If (you do not want any skipper can use data from another boat) then (make data only available to a logged-in-boat from that very same boat only)

Lacsareno from <guest> on her way to Rio.
Posted by
dikkehenk


Users avatar

Posts
66
Registered at
2012-02-24 15:03:37
2017-01-22 09:45:40 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
kroppyer said @ 2016-12-30 16:10:12:
but eventually, it is the way to go.
--

Hi there... i read '' this is the way to go"
I joined SOL in 2012, and back then the car race had about 700 players. As in Today, the big ocean races have about 250 active players.
If i look at the current ranking, only 150 members where active this year.

About the whole BWR and QT usage. I think i helped more than 50 SOLers with their routing setup. Since, you need to have some basic knowledge about TCP/IP and stuff, windows basics, java versions, blablabla.
Some even use fancy stuff like expedition, MAXsea, Adrena, Turbowin, dKart navigator, Navi Sailor etc. All allowed.
Now, If one does not understand that part, they also have a disadvantage.


Also, i do read frequently that people prefer their sleep, family life, do not want to spend 18 hours behind the pc, wake up at 03:00 o clock to check your PC.

My point here is that according to me, this is not the way to go at all unless you want to end up with 50 or less players.
Instead of holding on whats been proven successful at the start, but slowly losing it's key element, the players, i think it might be useful to start thinking different.

When i joined Sol, Sol had it's own router you could download, but was very wonky and slowly died.
So, i think you should , as SOL, supply 1 router. So all users have the same router.
Simple example would be :QT has 2 modes..a real boat, and a game boat for the VLM game. How about a game mode for SOL for example?
It can also be some other software, whatever works.

And then you can discuss what type of ''automation'' users want, and might increase the amount of players, and make the game more fun to play?

my 2 cents, best, DIKKE.

--- Last Edited by dikkehenk at 2017-01-22 09:46:02 ---

--- Last Edited by dikkehenk at 2017-01-22 09:46:41 ---
Posted by
dikkehenk


Users avatar

Posts
66
Registered at
2012-02-24 15:03:37
2017-01-23 18:17:19 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
oh, and by the way... about changing SOL.... flash is hard on it's way out.
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2465543/mozilla-firefox-is-latest-browser-to-kill-off-adobe-flash-support

so, my suggestion is still to tackle all this before it is to late.
Posted by
JB


Users avatar

Posts
305
Registered at
2013-03-07 08:54:34
2017-01-25 18:31:07 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
Viva Robberto and all,

Good afternoon.

The issue here, and to my mind, isn’t the routing software SOLers can use and/or de facto use.
Each one of us is more accustomed by a lot of good reasons to a particular piece of software for routing.

I strongly think that a SOL sim “glued” to a particular routing software isn’t a brilliant idea at all. By the contrary.

Robberto, the issue here was/is the public disclosure of boats live data, as we had via the hmm’s SOL blog connection/s, to which I strongly hope it keeps shut down till the privacy issues, namely, are cleared out.

The recent SRR alterations, if I did understand it well, went further up (in the right direction) by forbidding the total “robot” sail boat, with or without using boats live data.

The only remaining practical problem is how do you control it, or even, if it is possible to do it in due time, before a total “server solution” is implemented?

From the recent races in the hmm’s shutdown period, what I clearly saw was:

1 - Great fleet dispersions;
2 - More uncertainty in the races outcomes;
3 - Different podiums compositions;
4 - More competition on the water;
5 - Some (good) appeal for SOlers to learn routing and start doing their own races,
6 - and not just the easy way of “Copy/Pasting” the others paths.

Your person can even confirm actual points “5” and “6”.
Yes, more people is routing and racing for themselves.

That’s the way and, the good one, IMHO.

João/psail
Sail Fair.
Posted by
dikkehenk


Users avatar

Posts
66
Registered at
2012-02-24 15:03:37
2017-01-27 11:56:56 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
JB said @ 2017-01-25 18:31:07:
Viva Robberto and all,

Good afternoon.

The issue here, and to my mind, isn’t the routing software SOLers can use and/or de facto use.
Each one of us is more accustomed by a lot of good reasons to a particular piece of software for routing.

I strongly think that a SOL sim “glued” to a particular routing software isn’t a brilliant idea at all. By the contrary.

--

I disagree. The SOL sim is designed that all boats are equal.
So, the fact that you can use all sorts of different routers to calculate your course makes it more a who-understand-and is using-the-best-router sport. Not to mention those that don't have a clue about routing and such, have a disadvantage.

I would not call that fair at all. Therefore my suggestion to make that also equal for all.

Also, the fact that SOL is losing active players is something rather relevant. Ignoring that part in this whole discussion will not solve that part.

Your argument about the AIS data is also valid, but on the other hand, if you disable AIS ( since it is not that difficult for those who know to extract the AIS data and make your own hmm's datasheet) you also leave some connection to reality.


My point is, why not make it even more real, so this whole one-man-band-sailing is doable, fun to play, and keeps your social life at a normal level.
That might attract new players.

Best, Dikke.
Posted by
Rod


Users avatar

Posts
392
Registered at
2010-06-24 22:30:48
2017-01-28 04:37:14 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
One point that hasn't been mentioned in these discussions is that SOL seems to be slipping into a set of "Championships" for all possible kinds of races. Only a dozen or so SOLers have any chance of winning by using a lot of computer skills not available to the rest of us. I notice two consequences of this:- The "Winners" get bored and drop out---and the "Losers" get dissatisfied with losing all the time, and also drop out.
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
sol


Users avatar

Posts
297
Registered at
2008-08-14 11:08:14
2017-01-28 13:24:11 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
gone

--- Last Edited by sol at 2017-12-22 16:10:55 ---

Page: Previous 1 2 3 4 Next

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Tall Ships Races 2025 - Dunkirk to Aberdeen


Welcome to the second of four virtual Tall Ships Races in European waters which are concurrently being organized in-real-life Sail Training International . This second race is from Dunkirk in France up the North Sea to Scotland’s Aberdeen; circa 400nm in Sailonline’s magnificent 90m Barque.
NOTE: Starts and Finishes in tall ships racing are always offshore to avoid conflict with shipping and shipping lanes; online and real-life may not match exactly.
Race #1924
INFO by brainaid.de
Barque 90m PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: TS - SYC
Race starts: Jul 13th 16:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Suursaari TIMED Race 2025

The first TIMED race of the northern hemisphere Summer takes us to the Gulf of Finland on a 165nm zig-zagging course beginning and ending in the seacoast village of Haukilahti and circling the island of Suursaari. It’s only appropriate that the boat for this race is Finland’s own Club Swan 50. This is a TIMEDrace so you may RE-REGISTER HEREto try again after finishing a run. You will have 13 days and 11 hours to test your skill and decision making after the race opens.
Race #1928
INFOby brainaid.de
PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
TRQ3 - TRCH - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
26 July at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Jul 13th 12:00 Registration will open soon
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Lake Ontario 300 Challenge 2025

Lake Ontario Offshore Racing (LOOR) welcomes Sailonline sailors (SOLers for short) to a second virtual version of a race in their annual series, the LO300. As the name implies, the LO300 is a 300nm offshore race across the length and breadth of Lake Ontario, from and back to Port Credit YC. Once again, as is our wont on Lake Ontario, a fleet of Beneteau First 36.7s is being made available to virtual racers. There is an overall prize for the SOLer who best bosses Lake Ontario over the two races hosted by Sailonline, this 300 and the Susan Hood raced back in May; so, let the competition be fierce!
Race #1931
INFOby brainaid.de
First 36.7 PARTICULARS
NAM_AWIP WX Updates:
0245 / 0845 / 1445 / 2045
Ranking: LOOR - SYC
Race starts: Jul 12th 15:10 Registration Open!

▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

SSANZ Triple Series 2025 - Race 1

Join the excitement as Sailonline partners again with New Zealand's Short-handed Sailing Association for the thrilling SSANZ Triple Series, proudly sponsored by Lewmar Marine. Our SOLers will tackle an exhilarating 47-nautical-mile race, navigating the waters of the beautiful Hauraki Gulf out to Motuora Island via The Haystack and back. Racing virtual Young 88 yachts, our virtual fleet will match skills and strategies with the real-life fleet of the vibrant Young 88 Association. Don't miss this intense, tactical challenge!
Race #1932
INFO by brainaid.de
Young 88 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
SSANZ - SYC
Race starts: Jul 11th 21:15 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Tall Ships Races 2025 - Le Havre to Dunkirk


Welcome to the first of four virtual Tall Ships Races in European waters which are concurrently being organized in-real-life by Sail Training International . The course for this first race is between the French ports of Le Havre and Dunkirk; circa 125nm in Sailonline’s magnificent 90m Barque.
NOTE: Starts and Finishes in tall ships racing are always offshore to avoid conflict with shipping and shipping lanes; online and real-life may not match exactly.
Race #1923
INFO by brainaid.de
Barque 90m PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: TS - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Monday,
July 14 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Jul 07th 16:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Young Island to Great Nicobar 2025

The adventure continues as we launch this fifth leg of the RWW series, racing from Young Island to Great Nicobar on the edge of the Bay of Bengal. Get ready for a chilling start as we set sail on the seventh leg of the 2025 Ocean Championship Series! A 5200nm journey of endurance, strategy, and pure sailing excitement. This leg will be pursued aboard the Super Maxi 100v2, pushing sailors to their limits. Do you have what it takes to conquer the Indian Ocean? Join us and put your skills to the ultimate test!
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1929
INFO by brainaid.de
Super Maxi 100 v2 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ3 - RWW - OCCH - SUPSOL - SYC
Race starts: Jul 07th 11:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Sail Around Turkey 2025


Welcome to the 11th running of one of Sailonline's most iconic races, where our fleet races the length of the Turkish coastline from Hopa (the easternmost harbour on Turkey’s Black Sea coast) to Iskenderun (the easternmost harbour on Turkey’s Mediterranean coast). It’s a 1,372nm race and aboard our classic, 1st decade of the 21st Century, version 2 IMOCA 60, you should be able to get around the course in less than a week. That is if, of course, once you get out of the Black Sea you don’t stop to enjoy the sights or a BBQ or two in the Golden Horn, or on the Marble Islands, now land-locked Troy or Gallipoli or any of the myriad Aegean islands, that you shall have to carefully navigate past.
Race #1930
INFOfrom brainaid.de
IMOCA 60 v2 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC
RACE CLOSE: Friday,
July 11 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Jun 27th 15:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member FreyjaUSA
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Kipper1258
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rumskib
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member BRENTGRAY
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member vida
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client