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Board » Flag Officers » Rules and Decisions » “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.

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Posted by
sol


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2017-01-09 20:37:51 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
gone

--- Last Edited by sol at 2017-12-22 16:09:55 ---
Posted by
kroppyer


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2017-01-09 23:41:16 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
That is indeed (part of) one of the considered solutions.
Posted by
Go4iT


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2017-01-13 15:34:39 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
SAILONLINE RACING RULES 2017 – Further to the exchanges above, where Huib/kroppyer has explained the logic behind the wording of the new rule, SRC would like to add the following that has been advised to and cleared with OPS.

SOLers’ attention is drawn to the updated Sailonline Racing Rules (SRR) that are linked on the SOL Home Page. Whilst a number of anomalies from 2015 were corrected, a new Clause 4 was inserted addressing the perceived use or potential use of BOTS (automated software that acts independent of its owner) under which SOL skippers set up software to have their boat’s heading automatically adjusted over a period of time in the complete absence of, or further personal input by, the boat’s skipper. Clause 4 has been drafted to make such a practice contrary to SRR and to make the boat’s skipper liable to a protest from SRC or another boat in that race. As with all rules they are best if known and followed by all so that they do not have to be enforced. SOLers can rest assured that any protest on this matter, if sustained, may attract serious repercussions for the boat’s skipper.

For the avoidance of any doubt, this rule does not prevent the operation of ‘Routers’ such as qtVlm and BWR etc. where a skipper inputs a destination, routing parameters (speed/accuracy/calculation frequency/shore clearance etc.) and then promptly inputs the outcome to his boat as delayed commands (DCs). Such a practice was and remains acceptable. Some changes have been required to Spinnacer to exclude its ‘auto-pilot’ function and a notice to that effect has been posted in the application since 1st January whilst the software is amended.
SRC


--- Last Edited by Go4iT at 2017-01-13 15:35:09 ---
Posted by
guest


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2017-01-17 11:32:11 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
What, dear SRC, is wrong with a more or less intelligent steering-bot.

Is it that despicable if I would program my autopilot with

while twa>42 steer cc ### else steer twa 42

Or something like
if time later than 13:40 go online
while not on lattitude ### stay online
else steer 270 cc
go off line

I would use only data from my own instruments and react only on the changing conditions local to my boat.


If (you do not want any skipper can use data from another boat) then (make data only available to a logged-in-boat from that very same boat only)

Lacsareno from <guest> on her way to Rio.
Posted by
dikkehenk


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2017-01-22 09:45:40 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
kroppyer said @ 2016-12-30 16:10:12:
but eventually, it is the way to go.
--

Hi there... i read '' this is the way to go"
I joined SOL in 2012, and back then the car race had about 700 players. As in Today, the big ocean races have about 250 active players.
If i look at the current ranking, only 150 members where active this year.

About the whole BWR and QT usage. I think i helped more than 50 SOLers with their routing setup. Since, you need to have some basic knowledge about TCP/IP and stuff, windows basics, java versions, blablabla.
Some even use fancy stuff like expedition, MAXsea, Adrena, Turbowin, dKart navigator, Navi Sailor etc. All allowed.
Now, If one does not understand that part, they also have a disadvantage.


Also, i do read frequently that people prefer their sleep, family life, do not want to spend 18 hours behind the pc, wake up at 03:00 o clock to check your PC.

My point here is that according to me, this is not the way to go at all unless you want to end up with 50 or less players.
Instead of holding on whats been proven successful at the start, but slowly losing it's key element, the players, i think it might be useful to start thinking different.

When i joined Sol, Sol had it's own router you could download, but was very wonky and slowly died.
So, i think you should , as SOL, supply 1 router. So all users have the same router.
Simple example would be :QT has 2 modes..a real boat, and a game boat for the VLM game. How about a game mode for SOL for example?
It can also be some other software, whatever works.

And then you can discuss what type of ''automation'' users want, and might increase the amount of players, and make the game more fun to play?

my 2 cents, best, DIKKE.

--- Last Edited by dikkehenk at 2017-01-22 09:46:02 ---

--- Last Edited by dikkehenk at 2017-01-22 09:46:41 ---
Posted by
dikkehenk


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2017-01-23 18:17:19 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
oh, and by the way... about changing SOL.... flash is hard on it's way out.
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2465543/mozilla-firefox-is-latest-browser-to-kill-off-adobe-flash-support

so, my suggestion is still to tackle all this before it is to late.
Posted by
JB


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2017-01-25 18:31:07 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
Viva Robberto and all,

Good afternoon.

The issue here, and to my mind, isn’t the routing software SOLers can use and/or de facto use.
Each one of us is more accustomed by a lot of good reasons to a particular piece of software for routing.

I strongly think that a SOL sim “glued” to a particular routing software isn’t a brilliant idea at all. By the contrary.

Robberto, the issue here was/is the public disclosure of boats live data, as we had via the hmm’s SOL blog connection/s, to which I strongly hope it keeps shut down till the privacy issues, namely, are cleared out.

The recent SRR alterations, if I did understand it well, went further up (in the right direction) by forbidding the total “robot” sail boat, with or without using boats live data.

The only remaining practical problem is how do you control it, or even, if it is possible to do it in due time, before a total “server solution” is implemented?

From the recent races in the hmm’s shutdown period, what I clearly saw was:

1 - Great fleet dispersions;
2 - More uncertainty in the races outcomes;
3 - Different podiums compositions;
4 - More competition on the water;
5 - Some (good) appeal for SOlers to learn routing and start doing their own races,
6 - and not just the easy way of “Copy/Pasting” the others paths.

Your person can even confirm actual points “5” and “6”.
Yes, more people is routing and racing for themselves.

That’s the way and, the good one, IMHO.

João/psail
Sail Fair.
Posted by
dikkehenk


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2017-01-27 11:56:56 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
JB said @ 2017-01-25 18:31:07:
Viva Robberto and all,

Good afternoon.

The issue here, and to my mind, isn’t the routing software SOLers can use and/or de facto use.
Each one of us is more accustomed by a lot of good reasons to a particular piece of software for routing.

I strongly think that a SOL sim “glued” to a particular routing software isn’t a brilliant idea at all. By the contrary.

--

I disagree. The SOL sim is designed that all boats are equal.
So, the fact that you can use all sorts of different routers to calculate your course makes it more a who-understand-and is using-the-best-router sport. Not to mention those that don't have a clue about routing and such, have a disadvantage.

I would not call that fair at all. Therefore my suggestion to make that also equal for all.

Also, the fact that SOL is losing active players is something rather relevant. Ignoring that part in this whole discussion will not solve that part.

Your argument about the AIS data is also valid, but on the other hand, if you disable AIS ( since it is not that difficult for those who know to extract the AIS data and make your own hmm's datasheet) you also leave some connection to reality.


My point is, why not make it even more real, so this whole one-man-band-sailing is doable, fun to play, and keeps your social life at a normal level.
That might attract new players.

Best, Dikke.
Posted by
Rod


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2017-01-28 04:37:14 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
One point that hasn't been mentioned in these discussions is that SOL seems to be slipping into a set of "Championships" for all possible kinds of races. Only a dozen or so SOLers have any chance of winning by using a lot of computer skills not available to the rest of us. I notice two consequences of this:- The "Winners" get bored and drop out---and the "Losers" get dissatisfied with losing all the time, and also drop out.
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
sol


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2017-01-28 13:24:11 - Re: “Clause 4” and ISAF rule #69.
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--- Last Edited by sol at 2017-12-22 16:10:55 ---

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