Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » General Discussion » Practice Races - proposal for them to be set up like SOL Races

Posted by
Rod


Users avatar

Posts
392
Registered at
2010-06-24 22:30:48
2012-04-20 00:18:20 - Practice Races - proposal for them to be set up like SOL Races
Post annotated by RainbowChaser :
This post was moved from the thread SWR 6 - Practice Racing to have it stand out from practice racing "chit chat".
This is addressed specifically to those who run SOL:

The practice races (around the buoys)are becoming more popular and much more competitive. Even with only 10-20 racers it is very difficult to determine buoy-roundings and finishes. In addition, the burden of organizing these races is becoming an increasing burden upon RainbowChaser.

Would it be possible to change the system so that these races would be run on the regular system, with
1. Separate sign-up,
2. a 'start' point,
3. a 'start-line separate from the start point,
4. buoys located appropriately with rounding checked by the system
5. finish line (ditto)

These races correspond to the IRL in-port races of the VOR, so are not outside the normal routine of SOL, except that they would last only for 2-3 hours, starting at 1800 or 1900 UTC., and rarely have more than ten entrants.
It would also be very helpful if these races could be planned and carried out by different volunteers among the regular 'practice racing' group, having access to the SOL system ONLY for these specific races.
When 5 to 10 boats simultaneous cross the finish line, it is almost beyond the capability of anyone to determine the order of finish, as boats may be finishing from different directions.
______________



--- Last Edited by RainbowChaser at 2012-04-20 17:10:32 ---
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
RainbowChaser


Users avatar

Posts
2656
Registered at
2009-06-14 09:44:50
2012-04-20 10:17:10 - Re: Practice Races - proposal for them to be set up like SOL races
Rod - this is an excellent post (which is why I gave it a title of its own)!

As I set up practice races and SOL races both are "doable" from a my-time point of view.

One drawback, is the size additional load on the server of all the raced/archived practice races - unless the DevtDudes can create a mechanism by which the race is reusable. It would, I think, be possible to have a PR weather system which I could create/re-create for each zone, but that too will add load.

Another drawback is the potential performance impact on boats in official/ranking races from a server-ranking practice race, For about 2hrs each evening up to 20 (at the moment) practice racers are sending a lot of commands into the system. Right now they disappear into the "load" of a single open race but if set up as a separate server-race, then they would compete load-wise.

The range/style of courses available might be somewhat limited. The SOL server cannot (yet) show gates...offer "choice of rounding" and both of these options are very popular in practice races.

I agree that something needs to assist with final ranking in Practice Racing - have thought so for a very long time as we struggle to declare finishers - but to have course-restricted racing wouldn't be as much fun.

Suggestions anyone? The key issue really is how best to rank boats finishing one of the short/informal practice race courses!

As for giving a group of SOLers access to the database I think that is a non-starter.

One thing that would help is if more practice racers accepted my almost nightly invitation to design our course for the next day (based on forecast wx) so that all I would need to do is set it up. As a non-sailor my courses are, I am sure, not necessarily the best or most fun for the prevailing conditions!!
_______________


--- Last Edited by RainbowChaser at 2012-04-20 17:11:18 ---
Posted by
Rod


Users avatar

Posts
392
Registered at
2010-06-24 22:30:48
2012-04-20 14:33:01 - Re: Practice Racing - SOL Server move proposal
To RainbowChaser:- Please understand that I think you do a very difficult job very well. My concern is that 'round-the-buoys' racing is 'Practice' for the type of Radio-control racing that I do. I have not ever, and probably never will, be the navigator in a round-the-world ocean race.
The participants in the practice races are getting much more skillful, and competitive, which results in many more boats finishing at the same time. This is almost impossible to determine accurately as every participant sees the finish differently. Logging in as Sol prevents a sailor from making any real course changes just prior to the finish.
The only solution that I have been able to think up, is to make these into 'mini' regular races, or to appoint a volunteer "Race Director" for the race, as is done in Radio-sailing. The RD receives the average score for the race if it is part of a series. The RD would just watch the race without participating. The RD would need to get an accurate picture of all boat names and positions immediately prior to the finish of the first boat, because that is the ONLY way to determine finishing order.
I have no wish to be a 'sea lawyer' in this matter. My only concern is the general improvement of this virtual racing site into the best that it is possible for it to be.
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
NZL_Scotsman


Users avatar

Posts
251
Registered at
2008-10-04 07:59:40
2012-04-20 18:20:22 - Re: Practice Races - proposal for them to be set up like SOL Races
Good ideas there Rod. Hopefully the wonderful SOL gods can work something out without challenging the server etc. I also like the recent idea of having a few start times during the day. Today's 6am start was never likely to happen for me.
Posted by
rodm67


Users avatar

Posts
15
Registered at
2011-11-04 15:25:34
2012-04-20 18:34:55 - Re: Practice Races - proposal for them to be set up like SOL Races
I understand what Rod says about being very hard to call positions at PRs.

But I like the informal nature of PRs.

And, even if actually it doesn't occur at real life, I like the possibility about having regional PRs at same course, adjusted to timezones. I have flexible time, so I can join my global fellows, but I know that maybe is impossible to other brazilian SOLers to be practicing at middle of afternoon.

Anyway, totally agree that RainbowChaser is doing a excelent job, and would support any improvemnt that light the burden of organizing it.

Good Wind All

Posted by
SWE_Robert


Users avatar

Posts
19
Registered at
2009-06-28 13:03:13
2012-04-20 18:47:31 - Re: Practice Races - proposal for them to be set up like SOL Races
Anything that can make things better is welcome. I don´t know if this the thing to do. Some months ago we where talking of a special PR-race course and I think RC did puit up a race in The Auletians, because we wanted it in a secure wind-blowing place. That would be a different thing to what Rod is proposing, but as I said I´m for everything that makes SOL better though I don´t have any porblems with how things is working now, if it´s not a too heavy burden for RC.
Robert
Posted by
WINDEGG


Users avatar

Posts
10
Registered at
2010-03-22 10:53:59
2012-04-22 13:52:57 - Re: Practice Races - proposal for them to be set up like SOL Races
Agree with robert, i like it as its now.(if its not to much work for Rainbow C.) Its a practice race not real race ! You can compare tracks with each other and play with vmg and look at polar and talk on chat . And most of the time the practicerace get decided by server at a bouy. Maybe we should cancel the rankings!
If people want to race short races for real , maybe its an idea to have a short timedrace open all the time. See ya's on the virtual sea....: )
Posted by
Rod


Users avatar

Posts
392
Registered at
2010-06-24 22:30:48
2012-05-23 15:18:02 - Re: Practice Races - proposal for them to be set up like SOL Races
I, too, like the informal nature of the practice races--BUT--the participants are becoming more skillful--more boats are together when rounding buoys and finishing and it is becoming more difficult to determine the order of finish.
It seems unfair to RC for her to spend so much of her racing time finding out 1) who is sailing, 2)who has rounded, 3)who has finished and in what order.
These jobs would all be completed automatically if the race was set up in the regular format. I do not know how much work RC has to do to set up a race formally vs. informally, but it cannot be much different.
The only special requirement for what I have proposed would be in the original sign-up for the race, so that only those who really intended to race would sign-up. This is intended only to prevent people signing in under the impression that it was a regular race, only to realize later that the race lasted only 2-3 hours.
A special race for small numbers for a short time could well have a refresh interval of ONE SECOND for all participants rather than 15 sec or one minute---without overstressing the server.
On a personal note--I use SOL as practice for the radio-racing that I do--I will NEVER be asked to navigate an ocean racing yacht around the world---and I suspect very few other SOLers will, either! If they were, they would be doing it IRL and not spending time sitting in front of computers!!
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

New Ice Age 2026 - Browerville to Longyearbyen


Our 2026 long-distance ice-boating challenge continues with a second race in Arctic waters, now from Browerville, where we arrived less than a month ago, continuing east, back to Svalbard’s Longyearbyen, leaving Canada’s Ellesmere Island to port and Denmark’s Greenland to starboard. It’s about 2500nm, which, if there’s wind at all, should, well-wrapped in your DN-cockpits, not take you more than a day or three, thus to complete your first (of several) online circumnavigation of the planet of 2026!
Race #1969
INFOby brainaid.de
DN PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: NIA - SYC
Race starts: Feb 19th 07:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Doha Basra TIMED Race 2026

Welcome to Kuwait for a short 78 nm TIMED race from the port of Doha (not to be confused with Doha, Qatar) to Basra, Iraq. Jazirat Light on Auha Island is the only mark to observe, leaving it to port. The Beneteau First 40.7v2 racer-cruiser is our ride this month. This is a TIMEDrace so you may RE-REGISTER HEREto try again after finishing a run. You will have 13 days and 11 hours to test your skill and decision making after the race opens.
Race #2008
INFOby brainaid.de
First 40.7v2 Particulars
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
TRQ1 - TRCH - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
28 February at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Feb 15th 12:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

San Diego Islands Race 2026


Sailonline is proud to once again partner with the San Diego Yacht Club for the annual Islands Race! This iconic offshore challenge spans approximately 140 nautical miles, starting in Long Beach, rounding the Catalina Islands, and finishing in San Diego. Shifting coastal winds and tactical island roundings will test every sailor’s judgment and nerve.

This year, our SOLers will race the Ker 40, a proven high-performance design by Jason Ker and built by McConaghy Boats. Fast, responsive, and demanding, the Ker 40 rewards precision and smart strategy. The competition will be tight. Every decision will count. See you on the start line!
Race #2009
INFO by brainaid.de
Ker 40 PARTICULARS
NAM_AWIP WX Updates:
0245 / 0845 / 1445 / 2045
Ranking:
SUPBUD - SYC
Race starts: Feb 13th 20:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Cross the Convergence 2026 - Samoa to Hawaii


The second race of our new series of ocean voyages across the World’s convergence zones, takes us northward again up the Pacific Ocean, now from Samoa at 13.5 degrees South, across the Equator to Hawaii, famed for its breaking surf and active volcanoes, on the edge of the Tropic of Cancer at 19.5 degrees North. It’s 2300nm, so we’ll take our very steady Steinlager II. Race #1982
INFOby brainaid.de
Steinlager IIPARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: CCZ - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
February 21 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Feb 06th 18:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Beketov by Balloon 2026 - In Siberia


Way-back-when France and England, and Spain as well, were squabbling about who should control what of North America, only to lose the most of it to their own insurging colonists, their eastern European neighbour empire, Russia, was quietly assimilating vast, thinly nomadically populated territory of its own – Siberia! Amongst the many explorers and adventurers that served Russia so well in these conquests was the Cossack hetman Pyotr Beketov. Let’s pretend we’re he and eschewing horseback, let’s travel by balloon from Yekaterinberg to Krasnoyarsk – just a short 2000km (1100nm) section of the Trans-Siberian Express’ 9289km!
Race #1972
INFOby brainaid.de
SOL Balloon PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: BOL - SYC
Race starts: Feb 03rd 13:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

West Papua to Oregon 2026

Our next race in our Ocean Championships is the first of a series of great natural migrations we will track in 2026. The leatherback turtle is the most widely distributed marine reptile on planet Earth, and chooses to breed in warm tropical waters, but prefers to forage in more temperate habitats, travelling thousands and thousands of miles effortlessly annually to maintain this way of life. Our race will follow one of the typical trips of this turtle, from breeding grounds in the seas off West Papua to the coast of Oregon. It’s only 5900nm, so to keep up, but in comfort, we’ll follow in our Gunboat 90.
Race #2006
INFO by brainaid.de
GB 90 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ1 - OCCH - MIG - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Tuesday,
February 24 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Feb 02nd 11:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rumskib
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Sax747
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member vida
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CollegeFund
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member BRENTGRAY

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client