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Board » General Discussion » PROPOSAL: LIMITATION on the # of DCs

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Posted by
A2


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2009-10-26 00:39:42
2011-04-04 17:41:55 - Re: PROPOSAL: LIMITATION on the # of DCs
I am not here to complain about the current state of affairs or to criticize anyone for how they conduct their affairs within the scope of this website.

I have no nautical background and yet I enjoy this vicarious experience as an armchair skipper. I am impressed by the fact that those who are well seasoned and active sailors find this 'game' so compelling, as do I.

I certainly see the value in having a high degree of realism for those who want to test their routing skills and apply it to their real life excursions.

I find the idea of localized wind field variations appealing so that the grid was not so homogeneous. That should not impede strategic considerations but could enhance tactical interplay during periods of active participation.

This is not the first instance that these related topics have been raised either in chat or in various forum threads but it certainly seems to have struck a nerve this time around and the issue has been joined by knowledgeable and capable spokesmen for excellence and competitive balance.

Without prejudice to those who assist each other, as that has been explicitly allowed and has been a long standing practice, I would like to propose a category for Singlehanded registration.

This could be accomplished without any changes to the client software or in game display of the listed rankings.

Simply allow a choice whereby the 2nd option would be the boat type followed by a boldface capital 'S'.

Then when viewing the leaderboard under the Races tab from the main website one could scan the list and determine how well they did relative to those who were of a similar mind.

I do not suggest any changes as to how the overall rankings are calculated just a race by race delineation.
None so blind
Posted by
Jawz


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2009-07-21 09:51:19
2011-04-04 17:43:14 - Re: PROPOSAL: LIMITATION on the # of DCs
A real interesting proposal 76. Will Kalle and Jakob look into the changes or are we just airing our wishes.

I do feel that we must do something either with the user interface as I suggest or with the game engine or both, this in order to take the game forward and to freshen the challenge for all of us!
Posted by
NOR_Jawik


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2008-08-31 20:55:18
2011-04-04 17:49:26 - Re: PROPOSAL: LIMITATION on the # of DCs
I like the idea of WX change that deviates from reality. I could go so far as to collect WX from several months earlier and use this.

What about the transition between the WX? Can WX be arranged so that one avoid a brutal transition?

A few weeks ago we sailed from Huron to Chicago and saw a brutal transition two to three hours before the finish line. There was no way to predict this transition.
Posted by
Tempest


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2009-06-16 17:44:17
2011-04-04 17:58:59 - Re: PROPOSAL: LIMITATION on the # of DCs
The diverting weather looks appealing to me.
But as Jawz already suggested is it us daydreaming or a real possibility that actually can be implemented.

A breakup into divisions as suggested on various occasions and again here in this post might also be an option .

However if a choice in programming resources would have to be made i would vote for the 1st option and see what it brings to SOL .

Tempest
Posted by
Rod


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2010-06-24 22:30:48
2011-04-05 02:02:14 - Re: PROPOSAL: LIMITATION on the # of DCs
I suggested a more visual racing program style.
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
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Posted by
76Trombones


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2009-08-03 18:04:56
2011-04-05 02:38:22 - Re: PROPOSAL: LIMITATION on the # of DCs
eheh Rod - nice persistence, I'm all for fancy visuals, but it has nothing to do with the current discussion. 76T's virtual perfect game uses the celestial nav components and square rigging, but the crux is pure math. SOL (and IRL long distance sailing) are routing games. Altering the presentation doesn't change the result. The SOL interface is pretty darned close to ideal for presenting the *relevant* info and enabling the necessary interactions...

The code to allow use of the VS4 visuals is manageable... No diff to the way we sail, but I'd really like to see it running paired with the polars for a whaling ship - maybe we can petition Aaron ;-)?

This thread is tackling fundamental gameplay, not the gui.

76T
Posted by
Rod


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2011-04-05 04:34:54 - Re: PROPOSAL: LIMITATION on the # of DCs
It actually does run with polars, except in VS4 they are not actually presented. I know that VS4, as it exists, is not suitable for racing with a large number of boats--the weather is identical all over the world etc etc. I use it ONLY as an example of what can be achieved if anyone wants to do it. Sometime in the near future someone WILL do it, and then everyone will abandon SOL. The point is that SOL is very primitive as a sailing game, and someone will replace it. Why not the present operators of SOL?
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
AGage


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2008-12-27 10:31:57
2011-04-05 06:44:19 - Re: PROPOSAL: LIMITATION on the # of DCs
Absolutely no need for apologies Andrea, I was simply responding letting anyone know exactly what my current tools do and don't do - perhaps i was mistaken, but a few of my tools do seem to be intimitely caught up in what seemed the original discussion, so i was merely clarifying a few things :-)

And writing about time spent was not at all aimed to you, but to the general set of people who seem to think all we do is optimise a route, then plug it into SOL, go about a daily business and win the race ;-)

Rod: As I tried to explain in your other thread, adding that level of GUI sophistication is not at all a trivial undertaking - if a single developer created Virtual Sailor, you can bet he a) spent a HUGE amount of time on it and b) already had many components written before he even started the project - indeed most of the features you see now probably have been incrememntally added of years of version upgrades. And 76T backed my statement that it adds nothing to the realiam of this simulator, it is only graphical 'prettiness'.

I have already offered my time to Kalle et al, even spent quite a bit of it brushing up on my python (SOLs backend language) and learning ActionScript (The client language for Flash). So if there is anyway I can help with whatever is decided upon, I volunteer.

Perhaps i am missing what brought this discussion up to begin with - infact I probably am, as the more it has developed the more I am trying to figure out what started it lol.

THe problem with writing software for SOL, is in enabling ALL to use it. Java is the ideal solution there, but some things are incredibly difficult without direct OS support (ie transparent windows like in my polar butterfly overlay), and of course it could be done with Flash but would then just end up re-inventing the SOL client not creating 'add-ons'.

@Andrea: you probably wont be surprised to learn that a VMG/VMC 'autpilot' is part of my toolkit, also max BS - but honestly it not often useful...

Personally I can only see making the server weather different from client weather as problematic. Sure, you dont sail the exact forecast IRL, but atleast you are there to see what you ARE sailing in, and have advanced warnings of certain patterns approach etc visually. Setting DCs would be almost impossible, unless you overshoot the waypoints for safety (and again, the weather may change such that you overshoot by 3Nm more instead of the approximated 1nm - which is again no good).

I cannot see what limiting steering accuracy to integer degrees would acheive, other than further limit the number of possible routes.
I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
Posted by
Rod


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2010-06-24 22:30:48
2011-04-05 20:57:51 - Re: PROPOSAL: LIMITATION on the # of DCs
to 76T :-I am going to drop this whole idea of improvements to SOL as they are obviously not wanted.
I am also going to drop the idea that rules are rules.
I will continue to race in the main races, but not the practice races (I don't want to develop bad habits in IRL sailing). I will however wait for the introduction of a better sailing game with additional realism such as gusty winds, tidal currents, celestial nav, the RRS, and proper ship-handling.
Speed the day!
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
Jeroen


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2011-04-06 08:20:59 - Re: PROPOSAL: LIMITATION on the # of DCs
Thank you all for your posts in this topic.

I wan't to reply to the comments made earlier, we are looking at this with great interest and trying to work out a workable sollution for this issue. We have had this discussion a few times before but we are still looking for a way to implement this directly on the server side.

We wan't to avoid subjective ruling as much as possible and we are very hessistant to limit the current user freedom. Limiting acces to a single ip will also limit the freedom to check Sol on the road and at work. Also we strongly feel that Sol must be a open and fair community to all.

We are looking at some general rules to adres this initialy on the basis of a fair use policy. So we can adress the obvious cases.
Please let me know your thoughts on that idea, so we can turn this discussion into something productive.

Jeroen

I wrote this reply for another topic but feel this is a good reply for this topic as well.

--- Last Edited by Jeroen Tiel at 2011-04-06 08:37:49 ---
I am a ex-admin of SOL who joins in from time to time.

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