Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » Flag Officers » Rules and Decisions » The Tall Ship boat in fact was … a dinghy one.

Page: Previous 1 2

Posted by
JB


Users avatar

Posts
305
Registered at
2013-03-07 08:54:34
2016-09-19 12:58:20 - Re: The Tall Ship boat in fact was … a dinghy one.
Good morning Richard and all SRC members.

Thank you for your answers.
Follows my replies separated in the respective forum topics.

Cadiz - La Coruna Tall 2016 ships race.

1 - You made confusion between boat VMG and PL effects.

2 - In fact, in any boat (SOL or RL ones) we can have simultaneously a 100% PL with an absolute VMG value (number module) close or even zero, so, if may a correction in support of rigor,

3 - my argument wasn’t/isn’t like you mentioned: “Your point is that such sailing of a Tall Ship is unrealistic and takes advantage of a SOL PL parameter when PL would be low as the VMG of the vessel is low.”, (sic).

4 - My claim, again, was/is about unrealistic sailing from some skippers (note: not all, in spite of the so mentioned “general availability”) taking profit from an inappropriate boat PL, which is an induced reduction factor on the boat Polar that tries to simulate the performance loss of a boat during and after maneuvering (in RL measured in loss or gain of BS vs. time to reach a target speed, also called “acceleration”).

5 - You also made confusion between boat VMG and VMC (yours “c)” paragraph). They are obtained with different projection angles and, for different purposes.

6 - It wasn’t/isn’t the VMG that improved/improves with the abundant and unrealistic number of tacks/gybes, close to land or offshore, well, everywhere and anytime it made profit for reaching race targets (marks, fleet position, better WP/angles zones, etc.).

7 - Like outlaw referred here about this subject: “Short tacking is a simple matter of geometry”, (sic), with this PL formula, I must add, which takes us to VMC.

8 - It was/is a wrong conclusion from you that I “think SRC has many members and a lot of time to spare”, (sic).

9 - Far from that (see actual point 13) and not only about SRC. Let’s see why and how.

10 - What I thought, and still think, was clearly mentioned to you, in the forum and in further coms at the “bar when relaxing over a post-race beverage”.

11 - At the light of the actual technical impossibility to simulate the correct Tall Ship behavior during maneuvers, without a written rule that enforces the correct sailing behavior for this kind of ships, in fact, we’ll continue to premium the bad and unrealistic Tall Ship sailing like it was a dinghy, something that should worry any SOL member, at least for the sake of their credibility.

12 - As I’ve told before and yes, recognized by you, it is pretty much obvious that you can’t make a race protest under a race rule that don’t exist, like a problem killed before it even sees light.

13 - I want to believe that we didn’t forget that having/under written rules any skipper is entitled to make a protest without any need to have extra numbers of SRC persons allocated to overlook in real time alleged abuses (see actual point 8).

14 - Alias, exception made to AC and other match races that have special assigned Umpire members per boat (namely, in the water), it is like in RL and simple as that.

15 - Clearly it’s a matter of will, not person numbers.

16 - Firstly from all skippers in their self-impose commitment to sail fair under just and objective rules that everybody understands and accept as correct.

17 - But, for having that desired clean sailing environment SRC has to produce in due time rules that will allow and promote it, especially after taking notice of substantial facts that would impel it to take action in that particular direction.

18 - I can say hopefully we all expect the tall Ships races will continue in the SOL calendar.
In a year, two, three, to come, we’ll be again discussing this issue simply because the human nature won’t change and the rules either,

19 - or better, the will to change it, at least, if we take notice of your manifested orientation for doing plain nothing only founded by an “occasional incident with one race in a whole season”, (sic).

20 - I feel deeply sorry to say that after finishing the two pending races and the SOL project to which I committed myself, that "static" future is not going to be part of mine. I guarantee.

21 - In relation to your suggestions in the form of question to the possibility to shorten the actual WF time releases and DNF’s from BBq’s, I wouldn’t mind at all alterations on the actual format.

22 - Anyhow, in spite of those new (in facto old) issues don’t “unbalance” or substitute the present one, they weren’t objectively the scope of this particular discussion, not that I’ll refuse to discuss it or others, but in a different place in this forum.

Thank you SRC.
João/psail


--- Last Edited by JB at 2016-09-19 12:59:40 ---
Sail Fair.

Page: Previous 1 2

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Bight of Bonny TIMED Race 2026

Welcome to the first TIMED race of 2026! Our race finds us in the Gulf of Guinea and the Bight of Bonny. Starting in Douala, Cameroon the 170 nm course takes us around the island of Bioko with its Caldera and tropical rainforests finishing in Calabar, Nigeria. The boat for this race is the sporty Farr 30. This is a TIMEDrace so you may RE-REGISTER HEREto try again after finishing a run. You will have 13 days and 11 hours to test your skill and decision making after the race opens.
Race #2004
INFOby brainaid.de
Farr 38 Particulars
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
TRQ1 - TRCH - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
24 January at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Jan 11th 12:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Natuna Sea Race 2026


At 4.0N 108.2E lies the island of Natuna Besar, Great Natuna, surrounded by at least 154 islands, of which 127 uninhabited, Indonesia’s Natuna Regency, and all around this archipelago, the Natuna Sea, bordered by Borneo to the east, the Java Sea to the south, and the Malay peninsula to the west, and extending north to cross a disputed international border with China into the South China Sea. And it’s a border that matters, there’s gas here! But why worry, let’s race – 2050nm in our goo’ol’ Open 60s in between the production platforms, prowling destroyers and submarines.
Race #1997
INFOby brainaid.de
Open 60 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC
Race starts: Jan 06th 17:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Cape Town to Rio 2026

Welcome to South Africa and RCYC's classic transatlantic Cape2Rio Race from Cape Town, South Africa, to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. First run in 1971, this run is buddied with the IRL, Cape2Rio 2025 arranged by the Royal Cape Yacht Club with the cooperation of the
Iate Clube do Rio de Janeiro Despite this being announced the 2025 race (starting dec. 27) it is the 2026 SOL championship kickoff. This virtual version, will be raced once again in Mark Mills' 74ft speedster, the stunning C2R74.
Race #1996 INFO
by brainaid.de
C2R74 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
OCQ1 - OCCH - SUPBUD - SYC
Race starts: Dec 27th 12:00 Registration Closed

▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member vida
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Sax747
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rumskib
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CollegeFund
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Panpyc

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client