Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » General Discussion » SOL maps Datum & Interpolations.

Posted by
JB


Users avatar

Posts
305
Registered at
2013-03-07 08:54:34
2015-04-16 16:47:25 - SOL maps Datum & Interpolations.
Viva all,

Two questions for the STC:

1 - What is the SOL maps Datum?
2 - What is/are the algorithm/s used for (TWS; TWD) interpolation?

Thank you STC.
Sail Fair.
Posted by
A2


Users avatar

Posts
347
Registered at
2009-10-26 00:39:42
2015-04-16 17:20:59 - Re: SOL maps Datum & Interpolations.
SOL uses data from GSHHG (Global Self-consistent, Hierarchical, High-resolution Geography Database)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSHHG

Data for each resolution is formatted to tiles which are visible in the game. The tiles are compressed files with XML-formatted polygons (list of lat/lon coordinates) of the shorelines of islands and continents.
None so blind
Posted by
kroppyer


Users avatar

Posts
347
Registered at
2010-02-05 15:25:55
2015-04-16 18:22:58 - Re: SOL maps Datum & Interpolations.
sol uses h and i resolutions of GSHHG, and c and l resolutions are used in the client only for when you are zoomed out and don't need to see all details.

Interpolation:
this is what I found by measuring and fitting:
u/v interpolation (not TWS/TWD)
over space: linear
over time: I found this a close match (but not exact):
previous+(next-previous)*(0.5+0.5*cos(t/(2pi)))
with 0<=t<=1, previous the value for t=0 and next the value for t=1.

jakob said @ 2010-12-03 16:17:40:
Hi

So, about the interpolation of weather in time and space :-) Maybe some out there is longing for a short one-liner as explanation but I am afraid there is a little more to it… Here is in short the steps we take to get an "observation" (as we call it) at an arbitrary time (called t) and location based on forecasts.

1) Find the two forecast time steps (here called t1 and t2) surrounding the time t.
2) In space we simply use linear interpolation (in the 2 dimensions lat/long) of the forecast-data in the 4 closest forecast-nodes in the grib-file. Since the forecast has separate fields, one for northerly wind and one for easily wind we need to treat these entities separately, in our case by using complex notation. We also need to do this for both frames t1 and t2 from step 1 which thus gives us a set of two complex-valued space-interpolated wind speeds, one at t1 and one at t2.
3) Now we need to interpolate in time as smoothly as we can. We chose to do this using simple shape functions ensuring continuous wind speed and actually in our case continuous time derivatives.

Now, there are naturally many ways of doing this. One draw-back of this kind of interpolation is that we loose energy. Imagine the situation with constant wind speed but rotating wind direction so that at t1 the wind is due easily and at t2 it is due westly. In our interpolation we would (falsely) get that the wind speed at the time (t1+t2)/2 would be zero.

Also note that we do not always use the GFS model from NOAA. In particular around Sweden we have more detailed forecasts.

Hope this helped a little.

Regards
Jakob


(end quote)
Posted by
JB


Users avatar

Posts
305
Registered at
2013-03-07 08:54:34
2015-04-17 11:04:45 - Re: SOL maps Datum & Interpolations.
Viva “A2”, Huib and Jakob,

Thank you for your quick and detailed replies.
Following now more comments.
Sail Fair.
Posted by
JB


Users avatar

Posts
305
Registered at
2013-03-07 08:54:34
2015-04-17 11:05:14 - Re: SOL maps Datum & Interpolations.
Viva Huib

From what I understood the Wind vector field is divided in two vector components along orthogonal directions: North -South (“u” Wind vector component) and East - West (“v” Wind vector component) - see also included file.

Confirm pls if your approximation formula for interpolation over time (between time “t0” and time “t1”, with t1 > t0) is:

u1 = u1 + ( u1 - u0 ) x ( 1/2 + cos ( t/2PI )/2 ).
v1 = v1 + ( v1 - v0 ) x ( 1/2 + cos ( t/2PI )/2 ).

Did you managed to find a sigma (STD) for your (time, distance) interpolation results?

Thank you Huib.
Sail Fair.
Posted by
JB


Users avatar

Posts
305
Registered at
2013-03-07 08:54:34
2015-04-17 11:06:14 - Re: SOL maps Datum & Interpolations.
Viva Jakob,

Very interesting this subject, to say the least.
I’m one of the SOLers being puzzled for a long time, first, with the process for the SOL Wind interpolation process. “How it’s done?”
Secondly, the ruthless lack of consistency between routing software results and GRIB data in the low wind range, i.e., aprox. 0 < TWS < 6,00 - 8,00 Kts, independently of the GRIB given TWA, normally obtaining over rated BS.

For the last issue I strongly believe that that are two main causes for this discrepancies:

1 - Different Wind interpolation processes (routing software vs. SOL one);
2 - Time step calculation used on routing,

IMHO the second factor is the preponderant one.
If we think that, for instance, the minimum step calculation for qTVlm is 5 minutes, and if we have an 8º/minute induced Wind veering, difficulty you reach a 5 minute distance in the routing software with the calculated BS, not to say TWA. The implications are obvious.
But now, it’s time for understanding the first factor: Wind interpolations.

So, for the”distance” interpolation SOL uses bi-linear interpolation.
For the “time” one you mentioned “simple shape functions”, Can you pls detail more what are those “shape functions (linear, polynomial, 3D mesh, …)?

Thank you Jakob.


--- Last Edited by JB at 2015-04-17 11:09:16 ---
Sail Fair.
Attachments
Posted by
kroppyer


Users avatar

Posts
347
Registered at
2010-02-05 15:25:55
2015-04-17 22:47:27 - Re: SOL maps Datum & Interpolations.
I quoted Jakob from a post from 2010, I don't expect him to elaborate on that soon.

The formulas show you understood what I meant. Use t=t'/(t1-t0)-t0 to "normalise" t to [0,1]. I have no real sigma, but from what I remember it's around 2% at t=0.25/t=0.75, it's exact at t=0,0.5,1
It's weird to use a cos for this purpose, it's relatively heavy to calculate and far to precise for something that doesn't need geometry. Sol probably uses some 3rd to 5th order polynomial approximation that is faster to calculate, but slightly different from cos().

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Valparaiso to San Francisco 2025

Get ready for an exhilarating new challenge as we set sail on the fourth leg of the 2025 Ocean Championship Series! Following in the 19th century footsteps of Isabel Allende's heroine, Eliza Sommers, 'Daughter of Fortune', this all-new route takes us across the vast eastern Pacific, from Valparaíso, Chile, to San Francisco, California - a 3500nm journey of endurance, strategy, and pure sailing adrenaline. This leg will be raced aboard the powerful Rapido 60, pushing sailors to their limits as they navigate the open ocean. Do you have what it takes to conquer the Pacific? Join us and put your skills to the ultimate test!
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1900
INFO by brainaid.de
Rapido 60 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ2 - OCCH - SUPSOL - SYC
Race starts: Apr 07th 11:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Red Eye - Round White Island 2025

We remain in New Zealand for our second “Red Eye Special” and another IRL Kiwi classic - the Round White Island! IRL still “currently on hiatus” following the island’s eruption of 2019, this race was last raced on SOL in 2020. It’s about 300nm there - out the Hauraki Gulf and south down to the island in the Bay of Plenty - and back to Auckland. This year we’ll be racing in our ever-popular take on the TP-52. Hau tika!
Race #1844
INFOby brainaid.de
TP-52 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC - RED
Race starts: Apr 06th 12:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Moheli PYOC 2025


For our first sprint of Q2, we will re-visit the African archipelago nation, L’Union des Comoros, and its most southern island, Moheli, in the Mozambique Channel. Created by MustangMark in 2014 this is a “Pick Your Own Course” round the island, approximately 20nm in our First 27. Expect winds to be light and variable; we are in the Tropics.
Race 1907
INFO by brainaid.de
First 27 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
SPRQ2 - SPRCH - SUPSOL – SYC
Race starts: Apr 05th 09:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Africa by Sea - Tangier to Abidjan


Whatever about pharaoh Necho II’s Phoenician expedition of the 7th C BCE, the Carthaginian Hanno the Navigator with more certainty sailed south from Tangier to explore the West African coast two centuries later, but how far he got is a matter of more conjecture. However, if he did the 2300nm to today’s Ivory Coast he would have found little there other than good shelter in the vast lagoons behind the dunes, much the same as today, excepting the highly industrialized port of Abidjan. Not a great haven for a stop-over but let’s take the 90ft Monohull anyway.
Race #1855
INFOby brainaid.de
90ft Monohull PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC - ABC
Race starts: Mar 26th 17:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Sea Lion TIMED Race 2025

Come on down South for long days of sunlight and strong bracing winds to race our Finngulf 43 as many times as you like - 117nm as the albatross flies - through some of the islands of the Falklands archipelago. This is a TIMED race, so you may RE-REGISTER HERE to try again, after finishing a run. You will have 13 days and 11 hours to test your skill and decision making after the race opens.
Race #1903
INFO by brainaid.de
Finngulf 43 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
TRQ1 - TRCH - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
05 April at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Mar 23rd 12:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Melbourne Osaka Cup Double-Handed Yacht Race 2025

Welcome once again to what these days is Sailonline’s almost annual virtual Melbourne to Osaka Yacht Race. In real life, this double-handed 5500 nm race between these two sister cities, one deep in the southern hemisphere, the other high in the northern hemisphere, is run every four to five years, and this year is such a year. So, this year’s online version is in sync with the Melbourne Osaka Cup 2025 organised by the Ocean Racing Club of Victoria (ORCV), and the Sandringham (SYC) and Osaka Hokko (OHYC) yacht clubs. We’ll be racing the well-known First 40, a popular size of boat which should be a good match for many of the boats entered in the real race. With the doldrums unavoidably lying across our course, you can expect to be at virtual sea for at least a month!
Race #1669
INFO by brainaid.de
First 40 Particulars
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC
Race starts: Mar 16th 06:00 Registration Closed

▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Patrick70119
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member vida
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member FreyjaUSA
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Kipper1258
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rumskib

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client