Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » General Discussion » Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races

Page: Previous 1 2 3 Next

Posted by
Karri


Users avatar

Posts
42
Registered at
2012-11-12 13:17:29
2014-05-11 20:03:20 - Re: Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races
In general, as SLI jumping is explicitly allowed in the rules, I consider it a part of the game. IMHO it is not purely luck, although you do take a (calculated) risk.

Furthermore, In Cape Town to AD, I jumped one corner of Mauritius (a much longer jump than one server update), not on purpose, but because the server skipped one position update. I just happened (well, not happened, I did it on purpose) to change my course on exactly the correct server cycle, without the missed update my course change would have been spot on after the tip. Should I be penalised for that jump?

--- Last Edited by karriv at 2014-05-11 20:43:07 ---
My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I'm right.
Posted by
javakeda


Users avatar

Posts
73
Registered at
2013-03-01 03:18:22
2014-05-12 02:06:30 - Re: Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races
Karriv:
Did that jump gain you a position on the leadership board?

If not, it is "no harm, no foul" if we follow the F1 Chicane Cutting 'enforcement' practices as a model.

If you did gain one or more positions you should be penalized -- that is, you should give back those positions.

Note that I am proposing this rule for 2014 Ocean Series races only.
I can't see implementing this rule in Sprint races or Timed races.
-- For one thing because I doubt that enforcement is feasible in those kinds of races
-- For another because participants in those races may prefer to keep land jumping as part of the game.

So, I am proposing to change the rules for the remainder of just one 2014 series.
I am NOT proposing that SOL base rules be changed.
Posted by
Rod


Users avatar

Posts
392
Registered at
2010-06-24 22:30:48
2014-05-12 02:32:24 - Re: Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races
I am proposing a more realistic map, where you can't scrape off the paint down a long piece of coastline, can't cut the end of a headland so close that even the under-coat is removed----
Yours for more realism!!!
Aside from everything else, SOL should be instructional for would-be ocean navigators, and we should not encourage them to develop bad habits.....
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
Karri


Users avatar

Posts
42
Registered at
2012-11-12 13:17:29
2014-05-12 04:53:08 - Re: Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races
javakeda said @ 2014-05-12 02:06:30:

Karriv:
Did that jump gain you a position on the leadership board?
At that moment, no. But you know how this game works, an advantage of 5 seconds somewhere can be ten minutes in the end. How do you control that?

My point was, that jump was unintentional and due to the shortcomings in the system. IMHO penalising for that would not be fair. That would mean penalising someone for being able to time maneuvers accurately.

--- Last Edited by karriv at 2014-05-12 04:53:27 ---

--- Last Edited by karriv at 2014-05-12 04:53:49 ---
My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I'm right.
Posted by
Dingo


Users avatar

Posts
94
Registered at
2013-03-09 04:23:58
2014-05-13 00:36:21 - Re: Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races
From my perspective, you can approach SOL in two ways.

1. In the first way, you treat SOL as a sailing and navigation simulator and use it to improve your real life skills in these areas, or if you can't sail in real life, to at least enjoy some of the wonderful experiences of real life sailing.

You therefore don't sail over land, you don't cut the corners of marks, or go head to wind for a while before tacking, or stop part way through a gybe. You do attempt the perform the latter manoeuvres smoothly however.

Of course, in the real world, people do run aground and botch manoeuvres. In general SOL attempts to mimic this with performance penalties.

2. The second approach is to see it as a computer-based arcade game, and to seek advantage or fun by tricking the computer into thinking you have done what you were meant to do, but in fact have gained advantage because of the limitations of the software to accurately mimic the real sailing world or to 'find you out'.

To each his own.

I like SOL because the huge majority seem to approach the simulator in the first way.

I'm am heartened to see Winston's post, so thanks to the SRC for working on it. :)

I don't think though that it is worth huge amounts of people's time trying to deal with protests over odd behaviour prompted by computer glitches.

cheers
John (Dingo)
Posted by
Karri


Users avatar

Posts
42
Registered at
2012-11-12 13:17:29
2014-05-13 09:46:15 - Re: Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races
In my opinion it is not either or, I have learned a lot about navigation while playing, but trying to do well in the game I do take advantage of what the rules and the system allow (I guess that's just in my nature, if I compete, I don't compromise;).

I'm not against banning jumping or making jumping impossible (actually I'm all for making it impossible). But IMHO
1. If rules explicitly allow something, it is a bit strange that people playing exactly as per the rules are somehow considered cheaters
2. If you want to make changes to the rules, you should carefully consider the consequences and the overall framework (e.g. if you want to ban SLI jumping, why only in ocean races where it has little or no meaning, why not ban also unrealistic gybing/tacking procedures, why not ban mark cutting...)
My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I'm right.
Posted by
kroppyer


Users avatar

Posts
347
Registered at
2010-02-05 15:25:55
2014-05-13 10:12:55 - Re: Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races
karriv - Completely agree! Couldn't have said it better myself.
Posted by
JB


Users avatar

Posts
305
Registered at
2013-03-07 08:54:34
2014-05-14 08:08:02 - Not only the boat “land levitation” but …
More than a problem to be solved by means of any old and/or new rules, the “jumping over land” is a common sense issue.
Simplifying: It should never happen, in any kind of race.

Other issue that I’ve seen so many times is the “jump starts”.
How it’s possible that starting at the same programed time - the official race start hour - some boats get an immediate advantage on others?

Defies my mind and sportsmanship, to say the least.
Sail Fair.
Posted by
kroppyer


Users avatar

Posts
347
Registered at
2010-02-05 15:25:55
2014-05-14 09:39:09 - Re: Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races
JB - those jumpstarts are visual only. The client just requests the new position of all boats before all boats have completed their jump, so some look like to have a headstart of a single jump. But later the roles could be reversed.
Posted by
JB


Users avatar

Posts
305
Registered at
2013-03-07 08:54:34
2014-05-14 10:12:20 - Re: Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races
Kroppy, thanks again for your explanation.

A simple test, with two boats, for instance, starting a PR, exactly at the same time and with the same HDG, sailing for some period of time, could make the final proof for this (non?) issue.

Kroppy the visuals can mislead you, ok, but with this simple test the DTF for each boat after sailing 10 minutes has to be equal. No?
Sail Fair.

Page: Previous 1 2 3 Next

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Cross the Convergence 2026 - Sao Tomé to Tristan

The fifth race of our series of ocean voyages across the World’s convergence zones takes us back south down the Atlantic from Sao Tomé on the Equator to Tristan da Cunha on the edge of the Roaring Forties. It’s 2500nm; in your path the Benguela winds and current along the south west African coast, and behind that the St Helena High stretching halfway to South America. So, mind where you go in your Volvo OD65 version 3 (based on sampled real-life race data by kroppyer)!
Race #1985
INFOby brainaid.de
Volvo OD65v3 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: CCZ - SYC
Race starts: Jul 03rd 18:00 Registration will open soon
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

New Ice Age 2026 - Neumayer Station to Scott Base


For a second-half of long-distance ice-boating, we take our DNs to Antarctica for a circumnavigation of that continent in two legs clockwise, in harmony with the prevailing winds (such as there are), beginning with a race from Germany’s Neumayer Station to New Zealand’s Scott Base. It’s about 3500nm, which, if there’s wind at all, should, well-wrapped in your DN-cockpits, not take you much more than five days. And remember: charts down here are unreliable – what is land and what is ice?!
Race #1970
INFOby brainaid.de
DN PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: NIA - SYC
Race starts: Jul 02nd 07:00 Registration will open soon
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Tall Ships 2026 - Aarhus to Harlingen


Welcome to the first of four virtual Tall Ships Races in European waters which are concurrently being organized in-real-life by Sail Training International . The course for this first race is from Aarhus in Denmark, through the Skaggerak and down the North Sea to Friesland’s Harlingen – a proper tall ship training adventure of circa 450nm, which online this year you will race in Sailonline’s classic Clipper 240.
NOTE: Starts and Finishes in tall ships racing are always offshore to avoid conflict with shipping and shipping lanes; online and real-life may not match exactly.
Race #1992
INFO by brainaid.de
Clipper 240 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: TSI - SUPBUD - SYC
Race starts: Jun 27th 16:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Viareggio Bastia Viareggio 2026

Our sixth race of nine to celebrate all things Mediterranean - fickle winds, history and olive oil - was planned to be our third buddy-up with another incredible Italian event, the Viareggio Bastia Viareggio (or BVR for short). Unfortunately, in-real-life the BVR has been cancelled this year. But online we shall race it never the less. It’s a quickie – a 160nm roundtrip there-and-back in classic Class 40. Have fun, and if you’re planning a BBQ, piccola isola Capraia halfway across is simply lovely!
Race #2041
INFO by brainaid.de
Class 40 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: MED - SUPBUD - SYC
Race starts: Jun 24th 12:00 Registration Open!

▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Shetland Race 2026 - Leg 2


After the thrill of the first leg, we don't linger long in Lerwick, Shetland. Following brief but joyous celebrations, it's time to set sail back across the North Sea to Bergen, Norway, for the gripping second leg of the Shetland Race 2026!

Covering another unpredictable 190 nautical miles, tactical depth and fierce competition await. This year, we take the helm of the Linjett 33. Designed by Mats Gustavsson in 1994 for Sweden's historic Rosättra Båtvarv, this sturdy, quality cruiser-racer has been a Sailonline favourite in northern waters since 2010. Whether you are chasing victory or savoring the voyage, hoist your sails and let the journey home begin!
Race #2040
INFO by brainaid.de
Linjett 33 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
SHE - RED - SUPBUD - SYC
Race starts: Jun 20th 16:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Brisbane to Keppel Tropical Yacht Race 2026


When the winter weather turns cool in southern Australia, sailors head up to the warmer tropics. Sailors from all over the world make their way to The Great Barrier Reef for the big winter regattas at Hamilton Island, Airlie Beach and Magnetic Island.
This year's B2K will start on 20 June to offer an event suited to a broader range of boats. Sailonline is, once again, joining with the racers from RQYS to race the 343 nautical miles from Brisbane to Keppel Island, this time in our First 44.7. It might be winter down under, but all you will need is shorts and t-shirts.
Race #2026
INFO by brainaid.de
First 44.7 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SUPBUD - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Sunday,
June 28 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Jun 20th 01:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Newport Bermuda Race 2026


The 636-mile Newport Bermuda Race is one of the oldest regularly scheduled ocean races, and with the Fastnet and the Sydney Hobart Race, it is one of the three great classic races of the yachting world. First raced in 1906, now in its 54th biennial, the Race can again also be participated in online. In real life, the race is open to entry in four different division – Double-Handed, St. David's Lighthouse, Gibbs Hill Lighthouse, and Finisterre Division – which in the past we have also offered online. This year, however, our online race will be all-in one-design in silky swift Club Swan 50 yachts, so that your results can count towards SOL’s SUPerBUDdy title, whilst hopefully still giving you a chance of overall line honours against the fastest yachts of the real-life Gibbs Hill Division, especially if you can find some forecast winds that don’t quite work out that way on the real water!
Race #2038
INFOby brainaid.de
Club Swan 50 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SUPBUD - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Wednesday,
July 1 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Jun 19th 17:05 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Bluefin Tuna - Mexico Gulf to North Sea 2026

Join us and follow the Bluefin Tuna, as they migrate from their spawning grounds in the Gulf of Mexico to their feeding grounds in the North Sea off the coast of Norway. This 4300 nm race is part of our Ocean Championship and the final race of OCQ2 2026, and also the second leg of our Migration series. We will be sailing in our Gunboat 90. Race #2035
INFO by brainaid.de
Gunboat 90 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ2 - MIG - OCCH - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
July 4 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Jun 08th 11:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Panpyc
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member cdhinman
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member HoratioPugwash
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member YANN
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member ms0689

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client