Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » General Discussion » Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races

Page: Previous 1 2 3 Next

Posted by
Karri


Users avatar

Posts
42
Registered at
2012-11-12 13:17:29
2014-05-11 20:03:20 - Re: Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races
In general, as SLI jumping is explicitly allowed in the rules, I consider it a part of the game. IMHO it is not purely luck, although you do take a (calculated) risk.

Furthermore, In Cape Town to AD, I jumped one corner of Mauritius (a much longer jump than one server update), not on purpose, but because the server skipped one position update. I just happened (well, not happened, I did it on purpose) to change my course on exactly the correct server cycle, without the missed update my course change would have been spot on after the tip. Should I be penalised for that jump?

--- Last Edited by karriv at 2014-05-11 20:43:07 ---
My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I'm right.
Posted by
javakeda


Users avatar

Posts
73
Registered at
2013-03-01 03:18:22
2014-05-12 02:06:30 - Re: Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races
Karriv:
Did that jump gain you a position on the leadership board?

If not, it is "no harm, no foul" if we follow the F1 Chicane Cutting 'enforcement' practices as a model.

If you did gain one or more positions you should be penalized -- that is, you should give back those positions.

Note that I am proposing this rule for 2014 Ocean Series races only.
I can't see implementing this rule in Sprint races or Timed races.
-- For one thing because I doubt that enforcement is feasible in those kinds of races
-- For another because participants in those races may prefer to keep land jumping as part of the game.

So, I am proposing to change the rules for the remainder of just one 2014 series.
I am NOT proposing that SOL base rules be changed.
Posted by
Rod


Users avatar

Posts
392
Registered at
2010-06-24 22:30:48
2014-05-12 02:32:24 - Re: Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races
I am proposing a more realistic map, where you can't scrape off the paint down a long piece of coastline, can't cut the end of a headland so close that even the under-coat is removed----
Yours for more realism!!!
Aside from everything else, SOL should be instructional for would-be ocean navigators, and we should not encourage them to develop bad habits.....
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
Karri


Users avatar

Posts
42
Registered at
2012-11-12 13:17:29
2014-05-12 04:53:08 - Re: Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races
javakeda said @ 2014-05-12 02:06:30:

Karriv:
Did that jump gain you a position on the leadership board?
At that moment, no. But you know how this game works, an advantage of 5 seconds somewhere can be ten minutes in the end. How do you control that?

My point was, that jump was unintentional and due to the shortcomings in the system. IMHO penalising for that would not be fair. That would mean penalising someone for being able to time maneuvers accurately.

--- Last Edited by karriv at 2014-05-12 04:53:27 ---

--- Last Edited by karriv at 2014-05-12 04:53:49 ---
My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I'm right.
Posted by
Dingo


Users avatar

Posts
94
Registered at
2013-03-09 04:23:58
2014-05-13 00:36:21 - Re: Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races
From my perspective, you can approach SOL in two ways.

1. In the first way, you treat SOL as a sailing and navigation simulator and use it to improve your real life skills in these areas, or if you can't sail in real life, to at least enjoy some of the wonderful experiences of real life sailing.

You therefore don't sail over land, you don't cut the corners of marks, or go head to wind for a while before tacking, or stop part way through a gybe. You do attempt the perform the latter manoeuvres smoothly however.

Of course, in the real world, people do run aground and botch manoeuvres. In general SOL attempts to mimic this with performance penalties.

2. The second approach is to see it as a computer-based arcade game, and to seek advantage or fun by tricking the computer into thinking you have done what you were meant to do, but in fact have gained advantage because of the limitations of the software to accurately mimic the real sailing world or to 'find you out'.

To each his own.

I like SOL because the huge majority seem to approach the simulator in the first way.

I'm am heartened to see Winston's post, so thanks to the SRC for working on it. :)

I don't think though that it is worth huge amounts of people's time trying to deal with protests over odd behaviour prompted by computer glitches.

cheers
John (Dingo)
Posted by
Karri


Users avatar

Posts
42
Registered at
2012-11-12 13:17:29
2014-05-13 09:46:15 - Re: Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races
In my opinion it is not either or, I have learned a lot about navigation while playing, but trying to do well in the game I do take advantage of what the rules and the system allow (I guess that's just in my nature, if I compete, I don't compromise;).

I'm not against banning jumping or making jumping impossible (actually I'm all for making it impossible). But IMHO
1. If rules explicitly allow something, it is a bit strange that people playing exactly as per the rules are somehow considered cheaters
2. If you want to make changes to the rules, you should carefully consider the consequences and the overall framework (e.g. if you want to ban SLI jumping, why only in ocean races where it has little or no meaning, why not ban also unrealistic gybing/tacking procedures, why not ban mark cutting...)
My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I'm right.
Posted by
kroppyer


Users avatar

Posts
347
Registered at
2010-02-05 15:25:55
2014-05-13 10:12:55 - Re: Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races
karriv - Completely agree! Couldn't have said it better myself.
Posted by
JB


Users avatar

Posts
305
Registered at
2013-03-07 08:54:34
2014-05-14 08:08:02 - Not only the boat “land levitation” but …
More than a problem to be solved by means of any old and/or new rules, the “jumping over land” is a common sense issue.
Simplifying: It should never happen, in any kind of race.

Other issue that I’ve seen so many times is the “jump starts”.
How it’s possible that starting at the same programed time - the official race start hour - some boats get an immediate advantage on others?

Defies my mind and sportsmanship, to say the least.
Sail Fair.
Posted by
kroppyer


Users avatar

Posts
347
Registered at
2010-02-05 15:25:55
2014-05-14 09:39:09 - Re: Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races
JB - those jumpstarts are visual only. The client just requests the new position of all boats before all boats have completed their jump, so some look like to have a headstart of a single jump. But later the roles could be reversed.
Posted by
JB


Users avatar

Posts
305
Registered at
2013-03-07 08:54:34
2014-05-14 10:12:20 - Re: Lets Ban Land Jumping In Ocean Races
Kroppy, thanks again for your explanation.

A simple test, with two boats, for instance, starting a PR, exactly at the same time and with the same HDG, sailing for some period of time, could make the final proof for this (non?) issue.

Kroppy the visuals can mislead you, ok, but with this simple test the DTF for each boat after sailing 10 minutes has to be equal. No?
Sail Fair.

Page: Previous 1 2 3 Next

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Los Roques 2026


It's winter but not in the Caribbean, so welcome to Venezuela's Islas Los Roques archipelago for a 20nm sprint through these beautiful islands. Take care with your mutinous crew, they may be tempted to BBQ and snorkel!
Race #2007
INFO by brainaid.de
SOTO 30 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
RANKING:
SPQ1 - SPCH - SYC
Race starts: Feb 07th 13:00 Registration will open soon
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Cross the Convergence 2026 - Samoa to Hawaii


The second race of our new series of ocean voyages across the World’s convergence zones, takes us northward again up the Pacific Ocean, now from Samoa at 13.5 degrees South, across the Equator to Hawaii, famed for its breaking surf and active volcanoes, on the edge of the Tropic of Cancer at 19.5 degrees North. It’s 2300nm, so we’ll take our very steady Steinlager II. Race #1982
INFOby brainaid.de
Steinlager IIPARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: CCZ - SYC
Race starts: Feb 06th 18:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Beketov by Balloon 2026 - In Siberia


Way-back-when France and England, and Spain as well, were squabbling about who should control what of North America, only to lose the most of it to their own insurging colonists, their eastern European neighbour empire, Russia, was quietly assimilating vast, thinly nomadically populated territory of its own – Siberia! Amongst the many explorers and adventurers that served Russia so well in these conquests was the Cossack hetman Pyotr Beketov. Let’s pretend we’re he and eschewing horseback, let’s travel by balloon from Yekaterinberg to Krasnoyarsk – just a short 2000km (1100nm) section of the Trans-Siberian Express’ 9289km!
Race #1972
INFOby brainaid.de
SOL Balloon PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: BOL - SYC
Race starts: Feb 03rd 13:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

West Papua to Oregon 2026

Our next race in our Ocean Championships is the first of a series of great natural migrations we will track in 2026. The leatherback turtle is the most widely distributed marine reptile on planet Earth, and chooses to breed in warm tropical waters, but prefers to forage in more temperate habitats, travelling thousands and thousands of miles effortlessly annually to maintain this way of life. Our race will follow one of the typical trips of this turtle, from breeding grounds in the seas off West Papua to the coast of Oregon. It’s only 5900nm, so to keep up, but in comfort, we’ll follow in our Gunboat 90.
Race #2006
INFO by brainaid.de
GB 90 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ1 - OCCH - MIG - SYC
Race starts: Feb 02nd 11:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Race to Up Helly Aa 2026

A-OI!!! The fiery spirit of Shetland’s legendary Up Helly Aa returns, and Sailonline’s annual race to Lerwick is once again upon us. Covering 383 nautical miles from Aberdeen, SOLers will tackle winter waters steeped in Viking tradition. This year, we race the classic Frers 33, a proven cruiser-racer born from the golden era of offshore racing and still a sturdy performer both on the virtual and real water. Can you master the course and reach Lerwick in time for the flames?

SAILING NOTE: Gruney may be approached from any direction but must be passed for rounding purposes as indicated on the chart.
Race #2005
INFO by brainaid.de
Frers 33 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC
RACE CLOSE: Friday,
February 6 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Jan 30th 17:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rumskib
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Sax747
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member vida
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Kipper1258
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Panpyc

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client