Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » General Discussion » Weather updates

Page: 1 2 Next

Posted by
raven


Users avatar

Posts
21
Registered at
2008-03-10 12:36:50
2008-09-19 06:22:00 - Weather updates
Hi!

As of late, the weather updates seems to dictate the outcome of the race rather than individual sailing (although, of course, also important).

The perfect strategy might get ruined by the new weather or a real poor one boosted to a win.

I know this might resemble the real world where the weather is an unknown constant but the radical changes we're getting every 12 hours isn't very realistic :) and what about the poor sailors that normally sleep at 5.45 or 17.45 CET? They can basically be thrown of course by a new nasty weather while sleeping.

I'm not sure it's possible but I would vote for a weather system that perhaps is less like the real weather but easier to use in the game. Say each new weather forecast blends in with the old one and at shorter intervals than today. Then it would more gradually change and the weather for the closest hours would be more fixed.

Also, this would prevent sailors used to GRIBS from reading the weather updates before all other sailors as that data isn't necessarily what goes in the game.

Wouldn't that be nice?
Posted by
Eddie C. Dost


Users avatar

Posts
57
Registered at
2008-08-23 11:40:29
2008-09-19 06:46:29 - Re: Weather updates
One way to get a gradual change between weather updates would be to interpolate between the weather systems. Usually the weather data is available in 3h increments. In between there is interpolation over time anyway.

You get new weather at (shortly before) 0600 and 1800 UTC. 1200 UTC and 0000 UTC could also be used.

Now you could interpolate from 0600 UTC to 1200 UTC from the old weather to the new weather, this would make the change more gradual.

This would of course still be predeterminal by sailors smart enough. There is a way to go around this and make the game even more realistic:

Take the normal weather forecast as that what is shown in the client. Everybody may download this using UGrib or similar. But the wind you experience on board your ship is not what is in the forecast. For this you take weather from one of the slightly different forecasts run to produce trends in weather. There are 20 or more of these each day. Pick a different one at random and do not transfer this to the client, only the server knows which weather is active. Interpolate between old and new weather and it will be almost impossible to guess which exact trend forecast is active on the server.

I am willing to go into more details on this if SOL wants this. Please contact me by e-mail in this case.

Fair winds,
Eddie
_/)_/)_/)
The sea is lovely, dark, and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to sail before I sleep, And miles to sail before I sleep.
Posted by
SWE54


Users avatar

Posts
29
Registered at
2007-08-11 10:02:20
2008-09-19 06:52:49 - Re: Weather updates
I agree that the weather can bring surprices sometimes but on the other hand that's just what real weather does.
A more frequent update could smooth things out and make things more realistic but do not create any weather data. In real life you get a forecast and it is not always the real weather mathes and the new forecast will be different from the old, as seen so many times on TV..:)

Posted by
raven


Users avatar

Posts
21
Registered at
2008-03-10 12:36:50
2008-09-19 06:58:06 - Re: Weather updates
That might be true but we're not sailing in real weather. We're sailing on fixed weather for 12 hours and then on new fixed weather for 12 hours and it's when we move from one forecast to the next it's messed up.

Perfect solution would be to have forecasts generated every second (I know, unrealistic) then it would be like sailing in real weather...
Posted by
jakob


Users avatar

Posts
364
Registered at
2007-09-04 10:05:30
2008-09-19 10:06:31 - Re: Weather updates
Hi all,

First, let me express my pleasure over this discussion! Most of what you all say is correct.

Let me declare our intention: To make the racing conditions as realistic as possible. Having this said, the more tricky q is to define "realistic". We have not spent too much time into this issue but I realise that maybe we should. In this process we really appreciate your input.

The current system aims at using best possible forecatst. This is how it works today: Two times per day (maybe we could crank it up to 4?!) we get new forecasts in GRIB-format. The forecasts contain weather at certain time steps. Between these time steps the server interpolates in time to shuffle boats around in a continuously changing weather system. Thus, "now"- time is in practice always between to time steps.

When a new forecast arrive we keep the two time steps we are currently interpolating between but exchange all following time steps for the new ones. As a consequence we typically know exactly what the weather is going to be until the next forecast arrives.

Now, what should we do? What is the aim? Is it to keep sailing in the best possible forecasts (as today) or is it to manipulate the forecasts to be "fairly good" but less predictable (as IRL)?

I do not know? All ideas are welcome and the more specific suggestions we get the bigger the chance of implementation :-)

Regards
Jakob


...one of the guys behind the game...
Posted by
NZL_PaulR


Users avatar

Posts
311
Registered at
2008-07-22 12:21:30
2008-09-19 10:33:43 - Re: Weather updates
I favour the weather to be as realistic as possible, as this is excellent training for real life sailing.

The weather one experiences on the ocean is NEVER as forecast. It is similar, but earlier or late, more or less pressure and/or wind speed; and the angle changes constantly. Storms are stronger and calms last longer.

Further on an ocean race, you never spend 24/7 listening to the forecasts. You generally get forcasts at certain times of the day/night, sometimes often missing them or not bothering for a day or two, depending upon where in the world you are.

Weatherfax has made this simple; but it still happens at specific times and with significant time periods between forecasts.

The internet has vastly improved the ability to receive updated weather information but what would you do if that failed? You would fall back to shortwave forecasts with hand drawn sketches only.

So the challenge and rewards of SOL is the ability to practice tactics and being able to see what the fleet is doing as well. Analysis, guess work and finally luck all play a part.

Losing that challange with "ideal and stable" weather would I believe be the death knell to SOL.

As for times of forecasts, then having the same update at the same hour is also not really realistic. Perhaps one answer is to use the time schedules of forecasts available from local radio stations for say the average of the top 20% of the fleet. Then again, one normally only listens by preference to radio stations that broadcast from your own country (as you trust them) and in your own language as first choice.

Losing that real life weather guessing and never getting any lucky breaks would make SOL dead boring, IMHO.
If it breaks, it's not strong enough!
Posted by
jakob


Users avatar

Posts
364
Registered at
2007-09-04 10:05:30
2008-09-19 12:20:55 - Re: Weather updates
One more thing after discussion with Kalle: Although it is a bit unnatural to have perfect forecasts for 12h at the time we have to realize that some users do not watch SOL all day long. If we disturb the forecasts we make life harder for those users...
...one of the guys behind the game...
Posted by
raven


Users avatar

Posts
21
Registered at
2008-03-10 12:36:50
2008-09-19 17:00:34 - Re: Weather updates
Most of these points and ideas are valid. I would still argue that if nothing else, keep one more of the 3-hour forecasts when updating. Ie, if the updates is at 17.45 save 15, 18 and 21 from before. As it is now you have around 15 minutes to prepare for the new change rather than 3 hours which would make a huge difference :)
Posted by
kalle


Users avatar

Posts
413
Registered at
2007-06-01 09:58:04
2008-09-19 17:08:29 - Re: Weather updates
I think increasing the inter-forecast interpolation to 3h is a cup of breakfast cereal for our algorithmic mastermind Jakob :)
Posted by
jakob


Users avatar

Posts
364
Registered at
2007-09-04 10:05:30
2008-09-19 17:43:01 - Re: Weather updates
Good point!
Also, I talked to Weathertech today about getting 4 forecasts per day. Would that be an improvement?
...one of the guys behind the game...

Page: 1 2 Next

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Sinbad by Balloon 2025 - Toamasina to Baia de l'Oiseau


You may recall that when last we visited Madagascar in the company of Sinbad, the Sultan commanded our intrepid inspirator to seek out fabled islands where in Summer the sun barely set. We did and we returned but the Sultan wasn’t happy with Sinbad’s report, so here we go again, now by SOL Balloon instead of sailing vessel. Expect to be in the air for at least 2100nm and depending on how the wind brings us, anything between two weeks and two months before we shall descend at the Sultan’s given coordinates!
Race #1884
INFOby brainaid.de
SOL Balloon PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC - SBB
Race starts: Apr 09th 11:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Valparaiso to San Francisco 2025

Get ready for an exhilarating new challenge as we set sail on the fourth leg of the 2025 Ocean Championship Series! Following in the 19th century footsteps of Isabel Allende's heroine, Eliza Sommers, 'Daughter of Fortune', this all-new route takes us across the vast eastern Pacific, from Valparaíso, Chile, to San Francisco, California - a 3500nm journey of endurance, strategy, and pure sailing adrenaline. This leg will be raced aboard the powerful Rapido 60, pushing sailors to their limits as they navigate the open ocean. Do you have what it takes to conquer the Pacific? Join us and put your skills to the ultimate test!
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1900
INFO by brainaid.de
Rapido 60 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ2 - OCCH - SUPSOL - SYC
Race starts: Apr 07th 11:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Red Eye - Round White Island 2025

We remain in New Zealand for our second “Red Eye Special” and another IRL Kiwi classic - the Round White Island! IRL still “currently on hiatus” following the island’s eruption of 2019, this race was last raced on SOL in 2020. It’s about 300nm there - out the Hauraki Gulf and south down to the island in the Bay of Plenty - and back to Auckland. This year we’ll be racing in our ever-popular take on the TP-52. Hau tika!
Race #1844
INFOby brainaid.de
TP-52 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC - RED
RACE CLOSE: Sunday,
April 13 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Apr 06th 12:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Moheli PYOC 2025


For our first sprint of Q2, we will re-visit the African archipelago nation, L’Union des Comoros, and its most southern island, Moheli, in the Mozambique Channel. Created by MustangMark in 2014 this is a “Pick Your Own Course” round the island, approximately 20nm in our First 27. Expect winds to be light and variable; we are in the Tropics.
Race 1907
INFO by brainaid.de
First 27 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
SPRQ2 - SPRCH - SUPSOL – SYC
RACE CLOSE: Wednesday,
April 9 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Apr 05th 09:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Africa by Sea - Tangier to Abidjan


Whatever about pharaoh Necho II’s Phoenician expedition of the 7th C BCE, the Carthaginian Hanno the Navigator with more certainty sailed south from Tangier to explore the West African coast two centuries later, but how far he got is a matter of more conjecture. However, if he did the 2300nm to today’s Ivory Coast he would have found little there other than good shelter in the vast lagoons behind the dunes, much the same as today, excepting the highly industrialized port of Abidjan. Not a great haven for a stop-over but let’s take the 90ft Monohull anyway.
Race #1855
INFOby brainaid.de
90ft Monohull PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC - ABC
RACE CLOSE: Thursday,
April 10 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Mar 26th 17:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Melbourne Osaka Cup Double-Handed Yacht Race 2025

Welcome once again to what these days is Sailonline’s almost annual virtual Melbourne to Osaka Yacht Race. In real life, this double-handed 5500 nm race between these two sister cities, one deep in the southern hemisphere, the other high in the northern hemisphere, is run every four to five years, and this year is such a year. So, this year’s online version is in sync with the Melbourne Osaka Cup 2025 organised by the Ocean Racing Club of Victoria (ORCV), and the Sandringham (SYC) and Osaka Hokko (OHYC) yacht clubs. We’ll be racing the well-known First 40, a popular size of boat which should be a good match for many of the boats entered in the real race. With the doldrums unavoidably lying across our course, you can expect to be at virtual sea for at least a month!
Race #1669
INFO by brainaid.de
First 40 Particulars
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC
Race starts: Mar 16th 06:00 Registration Closed

▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Patrick70119
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member vida
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member FreyjaUSA
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Kipper1258
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rumskib

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client