Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » General Discussion » V070v3

Posted by
76Trombones


Users avatar

Posts
362
Registered at
2009-08-03 18:04:56
2011-07-30 13:29:10 - V070v3
There have been rumblings about upgrading our Volvo now that the next generation of boats are starting to appear.

Still quite a few cards being held back, but we have some preliminary data for Puma, Groupama and Camper with more to come in August.

I'm happy to do the final crunching, but in the meantime it would be great if we could set some of SOL's collective enthusiasm to the task of ferreting out relevant info:

•Anecdotal data
•Data points from pics showing instruments
•Pics showing the nav station with the routing running (haha right, but sometimes they're sloppy)
•The big one is to parse the tracker data. Either scroll manually picking off as many data points as possible into a spreadsheet, or trickier methods. There's not much point in trying to figure reaching speeds using this method, but scatter-plotting BS vs TWS for up and downwind conditions gives us a pretty decent overall evaluation. Tacking and gybe angles are also there (if you squint)...

We have 3 months! Post away
Posted by
RainbowChaser


Users avatar

Posts
2656
Registered at
2009-06-14 09:44:50
2011-08-03 15:03:47 - Re: V070v3
76T - it would be fab to have an upgraded boat before the next ocean race.. as you say.. we have three months!!

Let's hope everyone starts data-gathering!!!
Posted by
Sebensa


Users avatar

Posts
70
Registered at
2010-10-06 14:50:36
2011-08-18 18:32:27 - Re: V070v3
have been trying to ferret, with no results of any thing worthwile - will keep trying

Posted by
76Trombones


Users avatar

Posts
362
Registered at
2009-08-03 18:04:56
2012-01-01 20:47:25 - Re: V070v3
Raw data from the first two legs superimposed on our existing polar.
Attachments
Posted by
NZL_PaulR


Users avatar

Posts
311
Registered at
2008-07-22 12:21:30
2012-01-02 06:47:21 - Re: V070v3
The close hauled 40 to 70 TWA range looks reasonably close to the polar, but in the spinnaker 120to 140 range there is not as consistent agreement. This is all at first glance without any detailed comparision. My first questions is to ponder how much the sea state or tides/currents could have affected the actual results? Perhaps this is impossible to know or analyise and adjust for.

Still it is a very interesting comparision. Well done & Thanks.
If it breaks, it's not strong enough!
Posted by
AGage


Users avatar

Posts
411
Registered at
2008-12-27 10:31:57
2012-01-06 05:50:21 - Re: V070v3
Very interesting 76...

Paul - I would imagine that with enough data sea-state etc could be eliminated. I mean, if we had 200 data points for sailing at TWA X in TWS Y, there should be enough different sea-states and currents etc that they average out?
Perhaps I am wrong though.
Certainly some sea-state would be consistent, ie you usually have waves from behind when sailing downwind, and off the bow upwind. But that would be something we should include in our performance data? (as we don't have waves themselves in SOL) What should even out is the size of the waves. Sometimes they will be large and add a lot to the SOG - other times they will be much smaller (for the same wind) and contribute less.
Seems to me inport data would help with this?
I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
Posted by
NZL_PaulR


Users avatar

Posts
311
Registered at
2008-07-22 12:21:30
2012-01-06 11:25:47 - Re: V070v3
Aaron: I believe this is a simple summary.

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is."

So yes, lots more data could help, but eventually "paralysis by analysis" will occur.

The Nexus Server & software can produce polars for you after some sailing. I'm sure other systems can as well, but I have not seen or done this myself.

SOTP and looking outside the boat works for me, but a improving performance using a lot of effort and heaps of money would help!!.

Still I do appreciate 76T's work and thanks for showing the data.


If it breaks, it's not strong enough!
Posted by
NZL_PaulR


Users avatar

Posts
311
Registered at
2008-07-22 12:21:30
2012-01-06 11:27:51 - Re: V070v3
However the sea states "average out", most of us are seeking excellence in sailing, not just an "average" performance, rather like sex really. LOL!!
If it breaks, it's not strong enough!
Posted by
76Trombones


Users avatar

Posts
362
Registered at
2009-08-03 18:04:56
2012-01-06 12:42:28 - Re: V070v3
The data represents some 600 hours of sailing spread over 6 weeks and averaged over 1 hour periods (and 6, well 5... maybe 4 :) different boats), so it's a pretty good snapshot of average performance.

The "average" performance is a moving target, but it's what should feed your navigation decisions (always looking out the companionway as well). There'll be another (dozen?) sets of data that are used as performance targets to put the spurs to the crew, adjust for extreme weather nastiness etc.

Though sometimes you wonder... From Ken Read: “All of our routing software on board gave us an illusion that we could punch through that front,’’

Whenever statistics come up in sports (life, business etc) decision-making there's an argument that says that setting strategy based on anticipated performance is aiming for mediocre results. I don't buy it, but I think it's probably the way different people are wired - probably whole branches of psychology... I'd never say to my tiny pink crew that "we only need to hit 90% of our perf targets to make the critical move", but I'd likewise not make critical decision based on achieving 110%.

In SOL, where 100% boatspeed is a given, I still try to allow room for error/fatigue/luck. Routing (or SOTP) can sometimes give you the idea that you can do things that are pretty improbable. Balancing the improbable and the impossible is a good chunk of the fun (and like swing-for-the-fences irl strategy, GREAT fun when it pays off).

ANYways :) My take on the data vs our polar is that a) we're pretty close! We mostly knew that already, but cool to see. b) There are a few sail transitions that we could work into the polar to give us some more gears to play with (usual suspects close reaching and 110-130 depending on TWS)

We're much too fast in some conditions, but have to balance against sailing gribs vs IRL and the way SOL handles weather, especially for ocean races.

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Carib Rum Run 2026


Ahoy, ye landlubbers and seasoned salts! Welcome back to Sailonline’s legendary Carib Rum Run, perfectly timed to kick off on International Talk Like a Pirate Day, 19 September!

This year, we command the magnificent Falkun—the ultimate high-tech superyacht modeled after the iconic Maltese Falcon. This 1759nm slalom takes us through the Caribbean’s rum islands to plunder barrels from local distilleries and deliver them to the rum-parched sands of Cancun.

Join SYC before the finish to disguise yer boat with a pirate name for this race only. Hoist the sails, sharpen yer cutlasses, and plot your winning course!
Race #2060
INFO by brainaid.de
Falkun PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC
Race starts: Sep 19th 05:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Silverrudder 2026


Ahoy, SOLers! Welcome to the 2026 edition of the Silver Rudder – Challenge of the Sea! This epic 125nm single-handed race around Denmark’s island of Funen is back!

Shallow waters and shifting winds await in the world’s largest solo regatta. This year, we return to the popular First 27 solo. This superlight, water-ballasted planing machine features twin rudders and weighs a full tonne lighter than her older stepsisters. Will you master her power where precision counts most?!

It is imperative that you read AND understand these special Starting Conditions for SILVERRUDDER 2026:
Starting Conditions!!

Race #2059
INFO by brainaid.de
First 27 Solo PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC - SUPBUD - RED
RACE CLOSE: Friday,
September 25 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Sep 18th 08:30 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Isle of Mull TIMED Race 2026

Welcome to the west coast of Scotland for an 80 nm race around the Isle of Mull. Mull is home to castles, distilleries, and the Highland Games. The race begins just north of Oban in the shadow of Dunstaffnage Castle and after rounding the island finishes down the coast at Crinan. The Twister 28 with its classic long keel is the boat for this race.
This is a TIMEDrace so you may RE-REGISTER HEREto try again after finishing a run. You will have two weeks to test your skill and decision making after the race opens.
Race #2057
INFOby brainaid.de
PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
TRQ3 - TRCH - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
26 September at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Sep 13th 12:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Cross the Convergence 2026 - Cocos to Sagar Island


Kapil Muni, incarnation of Lord Vishnu, founder of the Samkhya school of philosophy, disturbed from his meditation, in his wrath reduced the 60,000 sons of Sagar to ashes, as they dug the earth to retrieve the sacrificial horse that Lord Indra, the king of the Gods, stole off Sagar, thus creating the Sagara (ocean). Aeons later, Bhagiratha, a descendant of Sagara, asked Ganga to cleanse the ashes of the 60,000 princes, and her resultant torrential fall from heaven created the great river and where it met the ocean, the princes’ souls were washed and raised to heaven and Gangasagar (Sagar Island) was formed. So, let us join the pilgrimages to Kapi Muni’s Temple (see above) and race 2400nm from Cocos Island deep in the Sagara thence, in rather rapid Rapido 60s.
Race #1987
INFOby brainaid.de
Rapido 60PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: CCZ - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
September 26 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Sep 11th 18:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Shearwater - Rio de la Plata to Irish Sea 2026

Welcome to the fourth leg of our MIG series. This time we're racing the Sooty Shearwater on their migration from the breeding grounds in South America to the northern Atlantic. This is also part of our Ocean Championship, and as such the third race of OCQ3 2026. This race will be sailed in our Gunboat 90. Race #2055
INFO by brainaid.de
GunBoat 90 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
OCQ3 - OCCH - SYC - MIG
RACE CLOSE: Thursday,
October 1 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Sep 02nd 11:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Panpyc
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member cdhinman
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rthinman
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member BRENTGRAY
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Sax747
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member vida

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client