Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » Technical Discussion » When is my command executed?

Posted by
kroppyer


Users avatar

Posts
347
Registered at
2010-02-05 15:25:55
2016-10-26 16:30:33 - When is my command executed?
warning: I'll explain how serverjumps, commands and the client refresh rate work, but it's complicated and I cannot tell you yet how to take advantage of this knowledge (when rounding a mark for example)

Most of you know about server jumps. For rounding a mark, it's important to turn as early as possible, but absolutely not too early. This is made difficult by the server jumps, and client refresh rate, you rarely see your boat where it actually is. What you see is running a couple of seconds behind, in rare cases it could reach up to about 45 seconds.

So what is exactly happening. It's more than just the server jumps and the client update rate, but let's start with them anyway:

The server continuously checks all boats. For every boat that has not been moved by the server for at least 10 seconds, the server updates its position. This means, your boat will move every 10-12 seconds (when it's busy, it may take 2 seconds before the server notices it hasn't moved your boat yet).

When you haven't issued a command in the last 15 minutes or so, the server may skip you once or twice, and then do one big jump to catch up. This unloads the server a bit from boats that aren't actively steered.

useful tip: send a command 5-10 minutes before rounding a mark (setting a delayed command for 5-10 minutes before the mark also works). It'll make sure the server jumps for your boat are short when you reach the mark.

For the rest of this post, let's assume server jumps of 11 seconds: your boat is moved by the server every 11 seconds. I'm also assuming you have a fast internet connection.

The client polls the server every 15 seconds (roughly). Let's see what can happen with an example:
12:00:00 (jump) server moves your boat
12:00:00 (poll) client polls boat position, you see your boat at its current position (barely any delay!)
12:00:11 (jump)
12:00:15 (poll) your boat moves from its 12:00:00 position to its 12:00:11 position (running 4 second behind)
12:00:22 (jump)
12:00:30 (poll) your boat moves from its 12:00:11 position (19 seconds behind) to its 12:00:22 position (8 seconds behind).
12:00:33 (jump)
12:00:44 (jump)
12:00:45 (poll) your boat moves from its 12:00:22 position (23 seconds behind) to its 12:00:44 position (1 second behind). Note: the 12:00:33 position is not shown, it looks like you made one large jump.

A better understanding of how this works may not easily transfer into being able to steer your boat better. One useful tip is: when you see your boat make a large jump, you know two server jumps happened in the last 15 seconds, meaning the last jump happened less then 4 seconds ago. If you see a short jump, you know only 1 server jump happened in the last 15 seconds, meaning the last jump happened between 4 and 11 seconds ago.

Commands are executed independently from serverjumps. What does this mean? You might have seen your command execute at the start of a new server jump, or at the end. Both can happen. A command will never execute in the middle of a serverjump. All commands due to be executed (of every boat, in every race) are executed in one go, with 4 or 5 seconds between each go. So your command will generally be executed within 5 seconds after the time you set the command for. BUT your boat may still be at a position from 11 seconds ago. This means, your command will have an effect 11 seconds earlier than it was set to execute.

So now there are three things with an interval: the client polls ever 15 seconds, the server moves boats every 11 seconds and turns boats every 4 or 5 seconds. This is complicated, I can't tell you yet how to take advantage of this knowledge.
Up to now I've done one of two things for markroundings:
- wait until the client shows me clear to round, then send the command.
- when I expect a double jump to happen until the next client refresh, and I only need one more jump, I count, to 10. But 11 is probably safer.

Now I've researched how commands work, I might come up with a method that results in better roundings, without the risk of missing the mark. That will be something I'll post on solfans
Posted by
JimKnopf


Users avatar

Posts
24
Registered at
2010-06-10 23:14:48
2016-10-26 21:18:39 - Re: When is my command executed?
One advantage I take of your very informative explanation is: Don’t tack (gybe) too short for rounding a waypoint/buoy. To set a tack command in advance may have the effect to round too early. Seems to be better to wait for the visible pass by of the waypoint – then tack or gybe or set new course.
(Apologies for bad english).
Posted by
Kipper1258


Users avatar

Posts
248
Registered at
2015-06-18 22:08:49
2016-10-26 22:36:58 - Re: When is my command executed?
This is why roundings are missed even though DC Checker shows the mark as clear. DC Checker assumes that the DC is going to fire exactly at that time with no uncertainty. That is not the case in reality.
Posted by
ForbanduCollet44


Users avatar

Posts
1
Registered at
2024-10-18 23:02:24
2025-03-12 22:33:41 - Re: When is my command executed?
Hi kroppyer

Thanks a lot for your explanation.

This post is quite ancient so, is it still true or had the situation changed ?

At the end, you speak about another post on solfans, I didn't find it.

Thanks
Posted by
kroppyer


Users avatar

Posts
347
Registered at
2010-02-05 15:25:55
2025-03-13 14:32:40 - Re: When is my command executed?
The server-side hasn't changed much in this regard as far as I know. But there's a whole new client by now, so that part of the story may have changed.

I have never written that post on solfans. I think partially because I didn't find easy and reliable ways to get a significant advantage from the knowledge.

By now, I think there is software that tries to sync up with the server jumps. I believe Kipper's AGL does this, and possibly even the HTML5 client. Which makes it easier, and more intuitive to work with the server jumps.

From what I recall, I had some thoughts that could help you navigate around a mark with the server jumps. If you are in sync with the server jumps, you basically have 10 seconds to decide when and how much you want to steer, and it should be fairly obvious when to turn and by how much. What matters a lot here is that you need to get luck with where you end up after each jump. For example: If you jump just short of the mark, you'll have to continue sailing in the same direction for another 11 second, even though you needed only 2 more seconds to reach the mark. Depending on the situation, you can reduce the effect of this by aiming a bit wider, so that when you're less than 10 second from the mark, you can already start part of your turn. Of course, beware of wind direction and performance loss. And finally, I recall that maybe I wanted to figure out and describe a somewhat reliable way to determine where you'd end up multiple jumps ahead so that you know whether you need to steer wider or not.

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Andaman Islands PYOC 2025


The Andaman Islands are an archipelago, made up of 200 islands, in the northeastern Indian Ocean. Together with the Nicobar Islands to their south, the Andamans serve as a maritime boundary between the Bay of Bengal to the west and the Andaman Sea to the east. These waters will be the theater of our next 240nm race in the ARCH 2025 series. Which one you choose depends only on you, i.e. your Elan 410 sport will leave the Andaman Islands on the starboard or port side.
Race #1965
INFO from brainaid.de
Elan 410 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
ARQ4 - ARCH - SUPSOL - SYC
Race starts: Nov 24th 17:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Isla San Lorenzo RTI 2025


SOL’s SRC (Sailonline Race Committee) has taken us to some unusual places in the past, and San Lorenzo Island off Lima’s Callao peninsula is definitely another one. Housing a naval base and a penal institution, no vessel is allowed within 300m of its shores. Also, with no sources of potable water, it is a matter of debate whether it is an island at all, and not just a large rock. So, whatever you do, don’t be tempted to BBQ; you’ll be arrested and go thirsty! We return for the first time since 2018 to race thirteen potentially unlucky miles in J-30s; have fun!!
Race 1966
INFO by brainaid.de
J-30 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
SPQ4 - SPRCH - SUPSOL – SYC
RACE CLOSE: Wednesday,
November 26 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Nov 22nd 21:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Sinbad by Balloon 2025 - Carnarvon to Dondra


From here, our home in Bharatavarṣa is now north west of us – said Sinbad to his fellow balloonists. Perhaps we can ride the wind first further north, and then catch the winds that every year bring the rain, perhaps not. It’s 2600nm and we could be aloft awhile, so, Master el-Quarters, victuals only, no sandbags, provisioning the giant hamper. It will be not a picnic!
Race #1886
INFOby brainaid.de
SOL Balloon PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC - SBB
Race starts: Oct 15th 11:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CollegeFund
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member vida
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member BRENTGRAY
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member sassy63
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member brellis

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client