Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » Technical Support » Mini 6.5 polars

Posted by
Hirilondë


Users avatar

Posts
48
Registered at
2010-02-22 12:50:31
2015-11-14 23:06:17 - Mini 6.5 polars
I just logged into the Inhaca RTI Sprint to set up my morning back up DC for the start and noticed the polars for the present wind. I am in 15.6 kts. wind and the optimum TWA to weather is 34º? Unless they have done some drastic changes to the class I don't recall a Mini ever being able to sail much better than 45º TWA. In 2005 Rodney Johnstone's proto design was built for the 2007 Mini Transat. It was probably the most weatherly proto built and could just get to 45º TWA These are reaching boats designed specifically for the route from France to Brazil.

Anyway, I suggest checking into this. Probably too late for this race, but 34º is unrealistic to keep.
Posted by
kroppyer


Users avatar

Posts
347
Registered at
2010-02-05 15:25:55
2015-11-14 23:39:37 - Re: Mini 6.5 polars
Hi Hirilonde,

We are aware that the mini 6.50 polar is not as realistic as can be in multiple ways. Partially because you pointed it out 2 years ago here.

We try to be as realistic as we can (without getting wet), and there's a lot of places where we can improve. In the case of designing polars and updating them, we try to take the guesswork out of it more and more. We try our best to get reliable data to create a good polar. I'm not sure how the mini polar came to be. If we were to update the polar, my opinion would be that it has to be based on good data. In the absence of that data, there will be no update.

Personally, I really like the mini 650 polar sol has. It might not be worthy of carrying the name "mini 6.5" because it doesn't represent the performance of a mini well enough, but it's a challenging polar that I enjoy very much.

If this mismatch between polar and reality is a real issue, renaming the polar might be a solution. But apart from that, it would of course be nice to have a good, realistic mini 6.5 polar on sol. We need data for that (at least 40 points of high quality, if points are less reliable we need lots more points. The OD60v3 polar was designed using several thousands of datapoints).

--- Last Edited by kroppyer at 2015-11-14 23:42:52 ---
Posted by
Hirilondë


Users avatar

Posts
48
Registered at
2010-02-22 12:50:31
2015-11-15 01:52:54 - Re: Mini 6.5 polars
Thanks for the reply, again ;-)

The Mini is a box rule, so there is no one polar and I have no data on any boat myself. I would think that rounding out the curve to weather to be a little more like a multi-hull would make SOL's polar at least a good bit closer to real. I am not so concerned about being an actual reflection, but the performance of this polar is just plain weird. In the mid range winds it is almost as if the boat had 2 head sails creating a dip in the curve. And I have never seen the dip of any polar at 40º TWA.

Thanks for listening...........
Posted by
bonknhoot


Users avatar

Posts
109
Registered at
2013-08-06 21:35:15
2015-11-15 05:11:45 - Re: Mini 6.5 polars
Hi Guys,
While Qt crunches here's two further thoughts on the matter.
1/ two headsails is exactly how I always interpreted this polar, which has the merit of keeping you busy.
1a/ two downwind sails (a gennaker and an oversized symmetrical) also seems to be part of the wardrobe, for more HOT (hand on the tiller) sailing.
2/ there is a source against which we can compare our data. VR are running the Mini Transat at the moment and their polars are available on http://gwranking.forumactif.org/h10-outils-pour-vrtool. I'll do a comparison and report back.
Clipping along
Posted by
Hirilondë


Users avatar

Posts
48
Registered at
2010-02-22 12:50:31
2015-11-15 08:18:49 - Re: Mini 6.5 polars
Last I knew all a Mini had was a working jib, code 0, large and small spinnaker.
Posted by
JB


Users avatar

Posts
305
Registered at
2013-03-07 08:54:34
2015-11-17 12:53:06 - Re: Mini 6.5 polars
From: http://minitransat650.com/leov/html/design.html

"*Sails : The number of approved sails carried on board must not exceed eight (8). This must include a storm jib of maximum area 4m2, reef able to 2.5m2, and a try sail of 5m2 maximum area of a fluorescent colour and a minimum weight of 340 g/m2.

* Material Sails (EXPECT BIG CHANGE IN 2008 RULES)
* Mainsail : woven polyester, with windows of 0.2m2 maximum area.* Head sail : woven polyester and polyester film
* (Head sails in 3DL are permitted but only in polyester -this was a ruling made in February 1997)* Spinnaker : nylon
*Double film sails count as 2 sails. A wing mast of more than 2m2 in projected area counts as one sail, as well as any other wind propulsion system. See article I-11 for the sail number rule."
Sail Fair.
Posted by
Rod


Users avatar

Posts
392
Registered at
2010-06-24 22:30:48
2015-11-17 19:21:22 - Re: Mini 6.5 polars
Do you intend that we will have a choice of sails? --- And if we guess wrong, the sail will blow-out and be lost forever?
Yours for greater realism!!!!!!
Rod
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
JB


Users avatar

Posts
305
Registered at
2013-03-07 08:54:34
2015-11-18 09:42:58 - Re: Mini 6.5 polars
Viva Rod.

Yes you can choose your sails for the race but, inside the actual J-23 paragraph Sail Rules (2015_-_OFFICIAL_TEXTS_-_MINI_RULES_(J_AND_S).pdf).

If you made a bad sail/material choice and/or blew it under way, that’s it, you have to conform to it.
Sail Fair.
Posted by
JB


Users avatar

Posts
305
Registered at
2013-03-07 08:54:34
2015-11-18 09:45:12 - Re: Mini 6.5 polars
Have also a look on:

argo 650 ficha.pdf ,

about the number and type of sails for the mini 6.50 class.
Sail Fair.

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Falklands to Tasmania 2026

Welcome to yet another all-new route. This next race is part of our Ocean Championship as well as the ROW series. Falklands to Tasmania, is like last year's island to island. It’s one of the longer ones 6400nm, more than half way around the world (and the Antarctica). It starts the 2026 OCQ2, and will be sailed in our Steinlager 2, contrary to prior notice.
Race #2021
INFO by brainaid.de
Steinlager 2 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ2 - ROW - OCCH - SYC
Race starts: Apr 06th 11:00 Registration will open soon
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Gladstone Ports Corporation Brisbane to Gladstone Yacht Race 2026


Sailonline is thrilled to partner with the Queensland Cruising Yacht Club for the 2026 Gladstone Ports Corporation Brisbane to Gladstone Yacht Race! This 308 nautical mile offshore challenge follows Australia’s stunning east coast from Brisbane to Gladstone. Racing the fast and tactical Farr 40, sailors will need precision, strategy, and focus as shifting conditions test every decision from start to finish!
Race #2027
INFO by brainaid.de
Farr 40 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SUPBUD - SYC
Race starts: Apr 03rd 01:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Rapallo to Nador 2026


Welcome to Liguria’s Rapallo, there where Zarathustra spoke - at length - to Nietzsche, for our first race of nine to celebrate all things Mediterranean - fickle winds, history and olive oil. A number of our races in this new Magical Mediterranean series will be partnership with famous real-life races, but this first race is pure fiction - 780nm in refurbed IMOCA 60s, past or through the Balearic Isles and on into the Alboran Sea, to a finish off Nador on the Maroc Mediterranean coast.
Race #1975
INFOby brainaid.de
IMOCA 60v2 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: MED - SYC
Race starts: Mar 30th 15:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Cross the Convergence 2026 - Guam to Ouvéa


The third race of our series of ocean voyages across the World’s convergence zones takes us southeastward now down the Pacific, from Guam’s Apra Harbour at 13.5 degrees North, back across the Equator to the glorious New Caledonian resort island of Ouvéa, on the edge of the Tropic of Capricorn at 20.5 degrees South. It’s 2400nm, and there’s more than a few other islands in the way, so mind where you go in your Ocean 50s. Race #1981
INFOby brainaid.de
Ocean 50PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: CCZ - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Tuesday,
April 7 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Mar 20th 18:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rumskib
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Panpyc
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CollegeFund
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Sax747
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member vida
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member sassy63

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client