Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » General Discussion » Sailors with routers

Page: Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next

Kroppyer
Thanks for your thought's, but we don't have to make it so difficult.
We can do it as we allways done it, race to the finnish.
But we can have two classes, R for Routers, L for Livesailors.
The rules for the definitions between L &R can be discussed, the final decision should bee taken by the board.
We can race to the finnish together but with the differnce that R & L are presented in two different podiums, one in R & one in L.
We don't need too make it so difficult, we all like to sail and race.
//Husse
Husse
I think it would be interesting if an expert in SOTP sailing could explain in detail the techniques used in both long term and short term course planning, and then we could all understand a little more what the value of those podium positions for SOTPers would involve. I haven't seen much discussion of it yet. :)


It is also worth noting that there cost is no impediment to acquiring a router. There are more free routers available than there are commercial ones, and a few of the free ones do a very good job. Most only take an hour or two to understand their use. It takes a few more hours to also understand when not to use them. ;)

Please also understand I take nothing away from those who sail for fun or indeed the mental challenge of SOTP course reckoning. I'm just not seeing the value in a class for that activity.

On the other I do admire all those who are not particularly IT gifted who have taken on the challenge of learning how to use a router, or how to access and understand pilot charts, or who have been reading about long range weather forecasting in an effort to increase their pleasure and performance in SOL. Whilst they might not be on the podium much or even at all, they've learnt a lot and have moved from positions in the top 100-200 into positions in the top twenties and thirties. I think that is to be admired, even if it isn't rewarded with a podium medal or certificate.

--- Last Edited by Dingo at 2014-11-07 08:40:05 ---

--- Last Edited by Dingo at 2014-11-07 08:44:27 ---

--- Last Edited by Dingo at 2014-11-07 10:40:02 ---
I think Husse pointed out some valid points but it does seem a little bit artificial to me.

Like some pointed out a router is a tool to speed up calculations that could be done in, lets say Excel, or pen and paper.

Should there then also be different results for people who spend 2 hours or more on SOL per day, and those who spend less energy?

We could also have a separate class for those that do not even use the WX slider, except to see the pretty animation of the wind changes over time. A PSS (Point and Shoot Sailor) podium. Sarcasm here.

We only have a few hundred active sailors. Most of the shorter races are raced without routers anyway. This should only be considered for Ocean races. In my opinion not even there.
In theory you can do everything with spreadsheets that a router can. Are all spreadsheets allowed in the 'L' group? Or only those with some restrictions?

Let's forget about enforcing the rules for a moment. We're racing here, we are competitive. Part of that is finding the best approach within the rules. You can't do that when the rules are not clear.

A rule "You may only use this list of software <list>" is clear. "You may not route" is not clear.

_____
What I find most important to get you to understand about my previous proposal:
It leaves sol as is. Nothing changes. But, it adds an option for anyone to start groups, each with it's own ranking, and own set of rules. If you think "You may not route" is clear enough, get a group of solers together that agree to stick to that rule, and you have a group. You can also start a group only for friends.

How does that sound? Hopefully a bit less complicated and for some a bit more familiar.
I think you all have great idea's and good points.
But i think you all are missing my point, i maybe wasn't clear enough about that.
I want to attract new SOL'ers, or at least don't loose more SOL'ers.
I don't have anything against routers, excel-sheets or whatever anyone uses to find the best way to the endpoint.
The point is that we are getting fewer and fewer.
We need to do some Changes to attract new SOL'ers, everything has to change sometime to develope.
I think new SOL'ers quit when they don't have a chance against the "elite" who all probably uses routers.
Maybe it should be in the manual, as Dingo so wisely says, nobody has explained how to use a router. Maybe even SOL should have their own downloadable router to SOL'ers to use, with a manual to it.
This problem isn't new to SOL, during 2012 people stoped using SOL, as it is probably today.

starting to get over it
It's not about router or no router, it's about making SOL attractive and attracting new members who like too sail in the virtual live as well as i irl.
__________
edited to make a link out of a url to prevent column overlap

--- Last Edited by RainbowChaser at 2014-12-22 22:30:00 ---
Husse
We all can make SOL better, if we put some effort into it.
Husse
The line between to calculate future changes, or just looking at predictor, wind arrows or present isochrones should divide the SOLers so easily that it should not be hard to define two classes. ???
I don't think we (you) want two classes, I think you want a non-router sub class. So, adding a non-router ranking (in which only people are ranked who agree not to use a router) would be sufficient?

Step 2 is clearly defining what is routing and what is not. I might be the only one with problems here.

Hypothetically, if your predictor line would take into account your DCs. So not a twa/cc predictor line, but one that follows your DCs. And let's say that line doesn't extend for 6h, but for 6 days. Let's say it draws small parts of the polar every 15 minutes (so that it starts to look like isochrones). Then we add an option so that you can simulate a list of DCs without actually entering them as actual DCs yet. And to make it a bit more userfriendly it can show multiple of those simulated predictor lines at once, given different sets of DCs. As a handy tool we can automatically flag the the predictor lines/sets of DCs/routes that are "behind" (slower than) other predictor lines. If needed, we can remove all flagged (slow) routes, leaving only the faster ones. Let's add an option to create about 10 routes from an existing route, those 10 routes follow the existing route and diverge 15 minutes after the last DC in 10 slightly different headings. And finally, let's add an option to automatically do such "route splitting" for every existing route, followed by flagging and removing slow routes until we reach the end of our Wx.

At what point did this predictor line become a router?

That's why I would advise to use a list of allowed software rather than "Don't use a router".

___
In the end, you don't care about what should be called routing and what not, you just want a group of people that use similar tools as you do, and have a little competition within that group. At least, that's what I want.

--- Last Edited by kroppyer at 2014-11-07 22:04:48 ---
Kroppyer: Very good, thank you! I have to read your comment some more times to understand it fully. But I like your approach to the subject, and your brilliant thinking about this eternal problem.
From a few comments I have seen in chat, SOL used to have races where you could choose different classes of yacht for the same race?
If the server is still set up to handle this can the system just be modified so you pick your category as you register?
Maybe put in other categories for team boats etc as well if possible? can each category just be assigned a different boat colour?

Page: Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m


Current Races:

Migaloo Migration 2020
For many years, SOL has followed the migrations of the Pacific gray whale along the western coast of North America from its northern feeding grounds to its southern breeding grounds off Mexico. Down under in the far opposite corner of the Pacific, Migaloo, the white fella, and his humpback whale kin, exhibit exactly the same (or diametrically opposite) migratory habits between feeding grounds in Antarctic waters and breeding grounds off the coast of Queensland, Australia. We followed Migaloo's springtime track north for the first time in 2019 and this year we repeat the experience, now in 60ft Trimarans. Only 3200 nm. If a whale can do it, so can you!
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1344
INFOby brainaid.de
60ft Trimaran Particulars
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
OCCH-OCQ2-SUPERSOL-SYC
ALT. CLIENT:Classic
Race starts: Jun 05th 17:00 Registration Open!
New HTML5 Client GO TO RACE

A3 2020 Leg 6 - Airlie Beach to Cairns
SOL's gift to AGage's memory is the A3 - Agage's Around Australia Series. This race is Leg 6 of the series - a 295nm sprint in Seacart 30 Trimarans from Airlie Beach, inside the Great Barrier Reef up to Cairns.
Race #1353
INFO by brainaid.de
Seacart 30 Particulars
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: A3 - SYC
ALT. CLIENT: Classic
Race starts: Jun 01st 18:00 Registration Open!
New HTML5 Client GO TO RACE

SoCal 300 2020


The SoCal 300, raced in the waters of California on the US West Coast is usually one of San Diego Yacht Club's most challenging races meaning that we have our work cut out for us to be competitive in our Santa Cruz 52s. This year, due to #COVID19 the real race won't be running which means that some of the real competition may well find their way to race against us in virtuality!
Race #1349
INFO by brainaid.de
Santa Cruz 52 Particulars
NAM_AWIP WX Updates:
0245 / 0845 / 1445 / 2045
Ranking: SYC
ALT. CLIENT:Classic
RACE CLOSE: Wednesday, 3 June at 2300utc
Race starts: May 28th 19:00 Registration Closed
New HTML5 Client GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Kipper1258
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Dingo
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member calmxy
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Starship
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Jawz
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Beliberda
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member GREATSKUA

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client